Mommy Life

May 27, 2006 8:29 AM

Why I am Pro-Life

This is a follow-up to the Mohler piece I posted yesterday - and the comments some of you made there. I want to tell the story of my evolving thoughts on birth control and children.

As anyone who's been around here for a while knows, I come from a very bad background - divorce, abandonment, foster homes, sexual abuse, poverty marked my early childhood. No family love, no spiritual foundation. In the 60's and 70's, the counterculture provided a sense of identity and meaning for me that I never had. I was a Washington DC antiwar activist and a radical feminist - a spokeswoman for the pro-abortion movement. At the same time, there was part of me that was very positive: I married, had two daughters Samantha Sunshine and Jasmine Moondance, got my education as a Montessori teacher and taught impoverished preschool children to give them a better start.

On the outside, I looked confident and together - though definitely very antisocial. In 1976, after moving to San Francisco, the demons from the past became bigger than my ability to keep them down. I became a drug addict, abandoned my first husband and Samantha, and had an abortion which at the time I almost regarded as a rite of passage. You can read more about that in this article I originally published a few years ago in The Washington Times.

Fortunately - as some of you have read about in Lord, Please Meet Me in the Laundry Room - God was guiding my life in ways I would only later recognize. When my ex-husband threatened to put Samantha in foster care if I didn't take her, as irresponsible and hard-hearted as I was, I somehow rose to the occasion and took her back. I completely credit God with this amazing decision, as at the time I certainly did not have the character to make an unselfish choice on my own.

During my cocaine period, I developed a life-threatening case of pelvic inflammatory disease, which went undetected because of my constantly self-anesthetized condition. When it was finally discovered, I was immediately hospitalized and whisked into surgery in the middle of the night, only to awaken alone (by that time I had no friends capable of holding someone’s hand through that kind of ordeal) with the doctors telling me the results. They’d found an abscess on my Fallopian tube the size of a grapefruit. They had debated about whether to remove all my reproductive organs (I was 29 at the time), but even though I’d signed the papers they’d given me beforehand to let them make that call, they’d opted to go the more conservative route - two weeks in the hospital on IV antibiotics and Demerol and a few months of bed rest and Percodan at home.

They said I would never be able to have children.

My girls endured several more years of living with a morally bankrupt and 100% self-centered woman they called mother before in 1980 I cried out to God for help with my drug addiction and alcoholism. After a couple years in AA learning to live without those things and beginning to deal with the issues from my past, I met Tripp. We considered ourselves spiritual soul mates and meditated together each morning, even had "visions" of our past lives together. After our first date, he more or less moved in. What would you expect from two people with no moral foundation?

Three months later, when I missed my period, I went in for a pregnancy test (this was before you could do it yourself) and discovered I was pregnant. Amazing, since I had been using a diaphragm (just to be sure).

It was December 26, 1982. When I told Tripp, he said, “Well then, we’ll have to get married.” Another of those God-moments when looking back I see his hand on my life. Tripp had also been through two abortions with a previous girlfriend and had the same political leanings as I. For people like us, not knowing God or understanding the value of human life, there was no guilt or shame connected with an abortion. It was a slight inconvenience to prevent a bigger inconvenience.

And yet the thought of an abortion never entered our minds. Nor did living together, although we certainly were obvious candidates.

Instead, we were married a week later – January 2, 1983. Our first months together with very ragged and rough as neither of us had the emotional maturity or tools to handle marriage. We even separated for a few weeks, but somehow pulled it back together. Joshua Gabriel was born August 20, 1983.

Nine months later, though using birth control, I found myself pregnant again. Tripp was shocked and not too thrilled – he was seven years younger than I and already the father of three, after all. Until one day I was at the bank and started hemorrhaging. At the hospital they said I’d lost the baby. We wept together, immediately overcome by the meaning of the loss of life. First ultrasound confirmed no baby. More weeping. But the second level showed the baby still there. Now we knew we really wanted this baby. And yet during that pregnancy I went through two more hospitalizations where the loss seemed immanent.

Matthew Raphael was born January 9, 1986 (are you catching the significance of these names?) When the time came to start using birth control again, finding myself repulsed by the idea I talked it over with Tripp. Keep in mind that by this time we’d been searching for God together for three years. We were very sincere and devout – still meditating daily and doing all we could to be spiritual – just didn’t know Jesus as Savior or Redeemer.

Together, we came to the conclusion that our first calling was to be parents and that we should surrender to God (in our limited understanding) in that area, trusting that our family’s needs would be provided for. Today I would say we made a covenant with God, but I didn’t know the lingo in those days :)

So we did. Surrender was good. We were also discovering the healing that comes for childhood scars when you become a parent yourself and work to make things better for your own children. We were sincere. We were dedicated.

I became pregnant immediately and on 8/1/86 Benjamin Michael was born. Through a series of events described here, Tripp and I became Christians on March 21, 1987. It was immediately obvious to us who had been in charge of our marriage and our parenthood all along – and so though many other things about us changed, our commitment to parenthood and to life never wavered. In spite of opposition of friends, family – and even our church, we went on to have six more children – three by birth and three by adoption (one of whom would not be here today without our willingness to intervene and accept responsibility for him).

Today, each of my first two daughters has five children, and Samantha’s family is preparing to adopt a sixth. God has been gracious in giving me the opportunity to apologize and them the ability to forgive. By accepting the opportunity he has given us to be fruitful and multiply, we are maximizing our family’s legacy and his light in a dark world.

I have taken the time to tell this story in great detail because - kinda like the phrase from my radical political days “The personal is the political” – I believe in the power of our personal lives to testify to the truth. My life tells the story of the power of God when you surrender and trust him with every part of your life.

Personally, I am 100% pro-life. That means I do not believe in using any form of birth control – not even NFP. I do not believe in any artificial means such as IVF for making babies. I do not believe in stem cell research. I do not believe in euthanasia.

I have observed the Evangelical community with great sadness because of their myopic vision of family. I have inwardly mourned the lack of understanding of the blessing of children. I grieve at the disrespectful remarks I hear evangelical mothers make – like “Two’s all I can handle” “How do you do it? I have just one and I am going crazy.”

Read the history of birth control. It wasn’t just the Catholic Church that was against birth control – it was ALL churches. Martin Luther, considered it a sin "worse than adultery or incest." Calvin and Wesley, as well as theologians like Spurgeon and Pink - all condemned birth control.

In 1930 the Episcopal Church became the first to allow birth control, just as today they are the first to sanction gay religious leaders and gay marriage – does that tell you anything?

I was ashamed last January at the Pro-Life Rally in Washington DC – ashamed at the lack of evangelicals and the strong committed presence of Catholics.

But see, I don’t believe most evangelicals are really Pro-Life. In general, they are just anti-abortion, just as the media says. The only true Pro-Life position is that espoused by the Catholic Church and embraced by a handful of evangelicals like Rick and Jan Hess, parents of ten and authors of A Full Quiver: Family Planning and the Lordship of Christ (which I have copies of – see Barbara’s Picks). After years of being marginalized in the Christian community, this small band of Pro-Life believers finally found a voice in Christianity Today last fall in an article called "A Hard Pill to Swallow."

Because of this issue – which I believe is the heart of Christianity – I have thought many times of converting to Catholicism. Yes, I know all the chorus of evangelical objections to Catholic doctrine, but I’ve traveled widely enough in Christian circles to encounter some equally weird doctrines in Pentecostal churches, for instance. And to me the sanctity of life is way more important than the Mary and the Saints issue. As for papal authority, at least the pope’s voice has been consistently and 100% pro-life, unlike evangelical leaders.

Did you know that Randall Terry – a man who’s dedicated his life to the Pro-Life movement – recently converted to Catholicism? Can you understand why?

By now many of my readers have clicked outa here, deciding never to read Barbara Curtis again. I don’t really like to bring up divisive issues. I prefer to stand on common ground – which mothers have plenty of. But people have asked me, and I felt compelled to give a definitive statement on what I believe and why. That also means sharing my frustration with the evangelical church which in so many ways is conformed to the world and feels entitled to stay that way.

This is my story and why I believe what I believe. It doesn’t affect how I feel about other Christians and is not a litmus test for whether I can love and relate to them. My own daughters make their own decisions in this matter and it doesn’t change how I feel about them or act toward them. It is a matter of their personal faith and conviction.

In this area, as in all other areas of faith, I defer to this bit of wisdom from a 17th century theologian, Peter Meiderlin:

“In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.”

Posted in Church Issues, Pro-Life Issues | Permalink

Comments

I am 100% in agreement with you. Have you read Vickie Farris' book "A Mom Like You"? She discusses this issue in very similar terms. You are right, we as evangelicals are not completely pro-life, and it does make me wonder if that is why we have made so little progress in the political arena on this issue.

I would make an exception for severe medical conditions...I know several in that situation. But, even there, the heart attitude should be one of viewing children as a blessing, and not a burden.

Thanks for addressing a topic that few will broach!

In grace,
Kathy

Posted by: Kathy in VA | May 27, 2006 9:52 AM

God bless you, Barbara, for your honesty and for sharing your journey with us.

Some of us have been where you have been. It's good to know you're never alone.

Posted by: Suzanne | May 27, 2006 9:53 AM

My sister recently came in contact with an Evangelical woman who has three little children and was overwhelmed, especially because her oldest child was super difficult. She told my sister (who has four) that she just didn’t think they could handle anymore. My sister, who is a Catholic and does not use birth control, tried to explain why she believes in being open to children. The woman was intrigued and wanted to hear more about why my sister was open to life. So a few weeks later, they had another, more in-depth conversation about it. My sister tried to explain where she was coming from, how children are a blessing and if you happened to be super fertile (which they seemed to be), God must trust you with children. She even mentioned NFP for spacing since the woman felt so overwhelmed.

In the end, she and her husband decided to get a vasectomy. She said they were looking for a “sign” from God and Bible verses against birth control. They said they couldn’t find either.

My sister felt so defeated. She also wondered why they didn’t consider her their “sign.” When she told met the news, I was so saddened. I didn’t even know this couple – didn’t know their names, but still felt a sadness.

So thank you for posting about this. It is such an important issue and I think we need to get back to being truly pro-life, not just anti-abortion.

Posted by: Annie | May 27, 2006 9:55 AM

I am total agreement. My husband and I have only been out of the Catholic church for 2 years (although I was raised a charismatic protestant). In the RCC, I learned to respect all life. I'm not quite to the point of not using NFP, but I haven't really used it since the month we got pg with my first child, who is now 5. The Lord seems to know my needs in child spacing, and has held off my cycles and/or pregnancy until the child is almost weaned. That was the first place where we "trusted God with it" and He has blessed us greatly. In fact, I was thinking that we were done with having biological children (although adoption keeps becoming stronger and stronger in my heart). The other day, though, I was praying in the shower, and I now know that we're going to be blessed with at least 1 more. I distinctly felt the Lord say, "you're not done yet." While I'm feeling a bit of trepidation, I'm also excited to see when He will bless us (and also what gender, since I desire to raise a godly daughter). If the HOH and I hadn't made that decision to walk with Lord in this aspect, we never would have had the blessings we currently have (3 beautiful boys spaced 2 years apart), and who knows what we would be missing in the future?

Yes, it is very sad that many evangelicals do not take this issue seriously. I wish there were more out there to educate from within; fortunately, where we are at seems to have many who are open to the "quiver-full" philosophy, but we are in a reformed congregation. I'm not sure what the mainstream evangelical churches are like. That is one of many issues of prayer that the evangelical movement needs.

I've really been enjoying your writings. Keep it up, even though people may not always agree with you! I think you are saying many things that need to be said.

Amy

Posted by: Amy from Ezekiel's Garden | May 27, 2006 10:45 AM

Amen. Preach on, sister.

Posted by: Sherry | May 27, 2006 12:35 PM

I am converting to Catholicism and the Catholic church's pro life stance is one of the main things that led me to the Church. I see the consistency of the church as a strong argument in its favor.

Posted by: Tim | May 27, 2006 1:00 PM

Oh, boy, Barbara - Thank you for writing this. It is so nice to hear someone really take a stand and say this. We are very open to however many blessings the Lord sends our way (although I'll admit it's certainly a little scary, but in a good way!), but we know of no one in real life that feels this way. In our whole church we are the first (and probably only) family to have more than two children. And, while I love my church and really feel like this is my family, it is so hard to hear "I can't handle more than two, you've got to be crazy!, don't ya'll know what's causing that?, etc" from my brothers and sisters In Christ! It's so discouraging. And I'm soooo nonconfrontational and I don't want to hurt any feelings or try to be the Holy Spirit to anyone, but sometimes I feel like I have to speak up. It's so good to know that there are other people in the world who believe this - we're not making the whole thing up:)

Posted by: Shannon Miller | May 27, 2006 2:29 PM

I loved this post, Barbara. (I've been lurking for a long time, hi!) Thank you for taking a stand and for your gracious yet firm approach to such a difficult subject. It is good for young mothers such as myself who are still working through these issues, to hear stories like yours.

I'm going to email this one to my hubby! Uh oh... :)

Posted by: Sarah | May 27, 2006 3:03 PM

"My sister tried to explain where she was coming from, how children are a blessing and if you happened to be super fertile (which they seemed to be), God must trust you with children."

This really blessed my soul today. I appreciate so much that you wrote this. Thank you.

Posted by: Mrs. DMG | May 27, 2006 3:32 PM

Thank you so much for this post!!! I agree 100%, even though I'm not Catholic LOL! I too get very frustrated at "pro-life" people who are more than willing to picket an abortion clinic but then turn right around and use the same exact arguments to justify using birth control ("we need to be 'responsible,'" "I need to protect my health," "2-3 is a good number to have," etc.)

It's all about Who is the One who truly is in charge of the conception of a child. It's about whether conception is the result of a biological act that God set in motion at the beginning of time or something more than that. Psalm 139 tells me that God is intimately involved in conception, and that it simply will not, CANNOT occur apart from His will.

I've had people ask me before, "What if God only wants me to have 2 children, but I have 10?" I told them, "THAT CANNOT HAPPEN."

Posted by: Keer | May 27, 2006 5:16 PM

I also have a great deal of respect for Catholics and the Catholic church. I also appreciate their stance against the death penalty--part of their seamless garment position. All human life is valued, because of God's image on it.

Posted by: Julana | May 27, 2006 9:11 PM

Barbara,
I loved this post!! My question would be what about those of us who have had a vasectomy? My husband and I are in this struggle right now. We both feel that God is not finished with our family, but aren't sure if we should have a reversal. (we have 4 kids) I would love your input or anyone elses! Thanks!! Keep up the good work!

Posted by: Danielle | May 28, 2006 8:57 AM

Oh Barbara, what a wonderful post! Your honesty and humility are an example to me today.

I'm a Catholic. I was raised Catholic, but I wouldn't say I knew the Lord because I tied the church's God with my father, and I didn't have the best relationship with him. When I was a teen, I met an evangelical friend who converted me that way. So for a few years, I considered Catholic vs. evangelical doctrine and went the way of evangelical. And, I truly met the Lord for the first time. But I never considered the pro-life issues until I was an adult. Then, I met and married a Catholic man who really knew the Lord and knew his faith and it's doctines. And oh how wrong I was! Oh how wrong the evangelicals were! I thought about the "Mary worship" thing...until I learned about what the Catholics really teach about that straight from the Catholic literature, and not what the other people say they teach. I also learned startling, and reassuring, truths about their teachings on the saints, on salvation (NOT by works!), rosaries, etc. The Catholic church really fails in one area--teaching its flock what the Church really teaches!!! And then, Catholics cannot teach anyone else, so everyone else has mis-information.

ANYWAY, sorry to be long-winded, but I returned to the church of my youth, and then I found Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body, and I was blown away. Blown blown blown away. And I stopped my birth control right then and there.

Praise God too, because my marriage improved and my life improved and my joy increased. I had trying to control my life, and I returned that control to the One who never abuses it.

Thanks for this reminder today. With a difficult 3 yr old son and a 7 month old daughter, some days are tough, very tough, and I find myself turning away from my Lord and what he wants for my family and what I know in my heart to be true for our future. Your blog is a breath of fresh air.

Posted by: Jill | May 28, 2006 11:30 AM

Barbara! I love this! YES!!!! You are one of my biggest encouragers...I feel the same way you do, but find it hard to say these things...because I do not want to offend my sisters in Christ. But for my husband and I, this is how God has spoken to us, as well.

Your story (and this time you told it more in depth than I've ever read before) pretty much lays me flat...who could possibly deny God's working in your life? The power of God is so evident.

Thank you!!!

Posted by: Holly | May 28, 2006 12:10 PM

(By the way, I did list things in bullet format and separate paragraphs, but the preview doesn't show it that way. I apologize for not knowing how to make it show the way I wrote it you!)

All scripture from NKJV

The purpose of the law:
Galations 3:19-24

Grace and other related topics:
Romans 2:25-3:31 especially vs. 3:20, 27-31
Romans 7 (the pertinance of this chapter to the discussion, I guess, might depend on whether or not you believe family planning is sin, but there are many, many, that do not have that conviction.)
Romans 8:1
**Romans 14
1 Corinthians 3
2 Corinthians 3:4-18
Galations 3:26-4:11
Ephesians 2:8-9
Galations 5:1-5

Not philosophy, but Christ; not legalism, but Christ (especially, in this case, v. 16-19)
Colossians 2:1-23 "Let no one cheat you of your reward"

Romans 15; however, also Galations 6:1-5 There is nothing wrong with having faith and leaving stuff up to God. However, many Christians I have met have used this as an avoidance tactic so they didn't have to really think about the bad or naive decisions they were making. I would go further into detail but their stories are not mine to share. However, it's partially related to this topic.

God did offer to give us wisdom if we asked (James 1:5-8). Isn't it possible that, as we each have a personal, one-on-one relationship with Him, that sometimes His will for one isn't His will for all? There isn't anything wrong with wearing hair coverings, not eating meat, or obeying other things mentioned in the Bible (although my bible notes say that "head" in this context is used in regards to relationships more than physical coverings. But if this is so important that Paul mentions it, and it is physical instead of figurative, why aren't we, as obedient Christian women, wearing head coverings?) But there are other ways to be modest and pure in body than just those. I think there is nothing at ALL wrong with abstaining from ALL methods of birth control; however, be careful that you are not being legalistic and judgemental beyond God's intent for our obedience when you talk about the issues you have talked about in your article and the responses to it. God is a very big God, and many people in their relationship with Him do NOT see how natural planning is "anti-abortion" vs. "pro-life". God knows ahead of time and purposes each life. He also knows each death. There is a time to every season under heaven, as we all know Ecclesiastes 3 says (check out vs 5! My Bible states that "refrain from embracing means "sexual embrace"...I know they didn't have sex during menstruation and such, but I bet that it can mean many things. Sorry, got off on a tangent! The Bible is so cool.) And don't forget 1 Corinthians 7:2-7, especially vs. 5 and 6..."say it as a concession and not a commandment"! Yes, this set of verses could go in favor or against either argument. That is what is so intriguing.

Galatians 6:6-10 "Let us do good to ALL (emphasis mine), especially to those who are of the household of faith."

I know my ramblings are all over the place; bear with me, please, sisters! I have a small one (13 months and fully mobile) and out-of-town family that I have been writing this around. I haven't been able to form a logical flow of the text of my message. If you have to, ignore the words and just read the verses. I am NOT pointing fingers at anyone, just trying to show how we should not be dividing ourselves yet again but joining together and rejoicing in our salvation and our Savior!

With love,
Stephanie

Posted by: Stephanie | May 28, 2006 3:01 PM

Stephanie,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I don't think anyone is dividing themselves here. In fact, my post ended on a note that made it clear this isn't an issue worth being divided over.
I have noted, however, that every time women who are following this path of motherhood speak up to encourage one another, someone who doesn't feel called to the same path (maybe I should say yet, since you only have one child :) feels compelled to write a lengthy piece to invalidate what's been said and to accuse us of division.

I was kinda hoping that wouldn't happen here as I made it plain I was speaking from personal experience - and as women who feel this way need a venue now and then where we can encourage one another as we suffer such misunderstanding and judgment elsewhere.

I think the vast number of verses that have to do with the worth of children represent something far more important than head coverings and other outer symbols of our faith.

And yes, God's will for one would never be his will for all. Some people do not use birth control and never conceive. Some conceive and do not carry to term. Some have one or two children. Some have 10 or 12.

You are right, God has plans for each of us. And that is exactly my point.

Also, if children are a blessing, why would anyone say, "I'll just have three blessings, please, Lord -- more would be too much"? That would be like being offered a starting salary and saying, "Oh, I really don't want to get paid that much - $25,00 is all I need."

If children are a blessing and God wants to bless our socks off with his perfect abundance of them, then if we believed him why would we try our best to prevent Him?

Posted by: barbaracurtis | May 28, 2006 3:24 PM

Barbara, thank you for sharing your story and your perspective. It is amazing to read what God has done in your life.

I just want to say that some things said in your post and also in the comments by everyone were hurtful to me as someone who has struggled and is struggling with infertility. One of the main struggles I have had is the feeling (while I know it is not true) that, if children are God's way of blessing us, if he does not bless us with children are we being punished by Him (or simply being denied blessing? or just have less favor in his eyes?)? If God "blesses" a teenage single mom drug addict with a child, does that mean He feels she can handle it better than a married woman who has been generally faithful to Him in her life?

I have a medical condition which prevents me from having cycles in general and it would require a physical healing from God for me to get pregnant without the help of assisted reproductive technologies. While I do feel that God can do that, I don't feel that he physically heals all. (I have gotten prayer for physical healing on a few occasions.)

I don't say these things to be divisive but just to make others aware of how this can be a very painful and difficult issue for those of us who struggle with infertility.

Posted by: CaliGirl | May 28, 2006 6:05 PM

Dear CaliGirl,

I don't know the answers to your questions. If the things that were said here were hurtful to you, I can only suggest that you learn not to be hurt by others talking about this subject, as we shouldn't have to avoid speaking of such an important matter in our own lives for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

That's not to say I don't sympathize - just as I sympathize with my children with disabilities for the tough hand they were dealt in this lifetime. I don't spend my time asking God why they were created with an extra chromosome. I just give him thanks and try to help them find joy in their lives.

I am glad you have given us some insight into your situation and pray that you will find the answers you seek. Although I had plenty of biological children, I have found adoption - even adopting special needs kids - to be a tremendous opportunity to conform myself to the image of God. After all, he adopted me.

I know women who have adopted children and then gone on to conceive their own children - quite by surprise. They say it was as if God needed parents for those children and they would not have otherwise been available. It might be worth thinking about.

In any case, nothing has been said here that anyone should have to apologize or feel guilty for. We all know that it could just as easily been one of us that was unable to conceive. And my own opinions are based on what I would do in similar circumstances. I would not under any circumstances turn to assisted reproductive technology. But that's just me.

Posted by: barbaracurtis | May 28, 2006 6:21 PM

I understand where you're coming from in a general sense, but I am a bit hurt by your comment about the Episcopal Church. Please understand that the Anglican Communion as a whole does not "sanction gay religious leaders and gay marriage." Many, many conservative dioceses (particular those overseas but including many in the United States such as my own my own) have expressed disapproval of the New Hampshire ordination. Nor are Episcopalians the first Christians to stray from either Scripture or orthodoxy--though the media coverage the Episcopal Church has gotten might lead you to believe this dig was justified. Such an innaccurate generalization seemed odd from someone with no interest in breeding conflict.

Posted by: Michelle | May 28, 2006 8:51 PM

Barbara,

I applaud you for all you said here. I am in agreement with you. I too wish evangelicals would step up and take a greater, more powerful stand. I just wanted to share a little something from another side of the coin.

My husband and I have 3 beautiful living children and 2 in heaven. Through much heartache and pain we found out that my husband is a carrier of a rare genetic disease. Our 2 children who died most likely had the disease (though we never tested...they were our firsts and we had no inclination to do so at the time). Out of our 3 living children, 2 of them are affected by the disease.

We have been through numerous tests, 3 years worth, and gone through genetic testing. We now know that any child we have would have a 50% chance of having the disease.

For us, the heartache was just too great. We chose to have a vasectomy. It has been painful to both of us. We do desire to continue to grow our family, but it will have to be through adoption. We are praying about that right now deeply wanting to see the Lord's will in this.

Now, I know what some of you are thinking. I've heard it several times myself. "Well, God is a big God and he gives you special needs children for a reason! Just trust Him to provide and He will!!!" I couldn't agree more. I just don't think I can endure the death or loss of another child, baby or pregnancy. And we are not talking about a simple handicap or disability here...so please don't think I'm being trite about that.

Anyway, I just thought I might offer our story for consideration.

Interestingly, because we have been through this, it has made me even more pro-life. Most children with my kids disease are aborted before they even get a chance. Everyday when I look at my miracles I thank God that He protected them in my womb. I use our "story" to show the goodness of God, and how that every child is worthy and worth life.

Be blessed...

Posted by: Lindsey | May 28, 2006 9:11 PM

Michelle -

Actually, although I am currently a member of a non-denominational church, I am also an Episcopalian. That is the denomination I most identify with, when we happen to live near a conservative congregation. I love the liturgy, the liturgical calender, the traditons and prayers, etc. So it isn't a dig from an outsider, but one from an insider - the same way though I usually vote Republican, I find many things I don't like about the party.

Let's face it - no matter how many conservative congregations the Episcopal Church has in the states, the Church in general leans left.

You can see why I never thought that remark would cause division - conservative Episcopalians can't be proud of their church's public positions. With the Catholic Church, it is the opposite. Their public position on life is perfect - it's just that there are Catholics who don't live up to the tenets of their church.

I'd suggest you not take it personally.

Posted by: barbaracurtis | May 28, 2006 9:25 PM

Barbara, I love your blog and agree with a lot of what you're saying here. Not sure I'm totally against birth control, but I do see such a closed-off attitude toward children in our culture, and it makes me sad.

But I do have to chime in with CaliGirl that comments like "If you're superfertile, that means God trusts you with children," to paraphrase one commenter here, are a bit over the top. It IS hurtful to those of us who would dearly love children (or more children then we already have).

I think it's great that God calls some families to have lots of children. It's inspiring to see. And such families are certainly going against the prevailing culture and should encourage each other to follow God's leading in this area.

So I'm not hurt by the mere discussion and mutual encouragement of moms of many, which is what I think Barbara's post was about. No, it's the attitude that moms of many must be better moms or more trusted by God just by virtue of their fertility. THAT hurts. And this is from someone who has already dealt with a lot of grief and has generally moved on and accepted that my one miracle child may be our one and only.

You know what? We're trusting God for the size of our family, too. I have to believe that God has a plan for our little family, too. I cannot bring myself to believe that the reason we don't have more children is that we cannot be trusted with them.

Posted by: Jennifer | May 29, 2006 3:53 AM

I just wanted to address Lindsey's comment, if I may.

Lindsey, I don't know if you're Catholic or not, but since Barbara was mentioning the Catholic teachings on pro-life issues, I want to note that in your situation, the Catholic church is on the same page as you are. If, for a grave reason of health, your educated and prayerful conscience leads you to decide against openess to further biological children, then you are not comitting sin according to the doctrine. The reason must be truly grave, as yours is.

That being said, the Church would then strongly encourage you to grow your family through adoption.

I wanted to say something to CaliGirl too, if I might. I have a physical disability, not infertility, but a physical limitation. It is a struggle to know why God didn't bless me with perfect health. Perfect health is a blessing...so why am I not blessed like most people?

Why are poor people not blessed with money? Why are special needs children not blessed with normal development?

Why was the blind man made blind, according to Jesus? So that God may be glorified.

Why are you not blessed with biological children? Not because you are a sinner (we all are). Not because God loves you less (He most certainly doesn't). The answer is we don't know, but it's so that in some way God may be glorified.

Adoption isn't easy. It's so easy for people with biological children to say "oh, just adopt". I've watched people go through it, and it's not easy. Especially if one only wants a healthy infant. But there are children waiting for homes.

It's hard for me to see how God might be glorified through my physical disability. It's hard for you to see how God might be glorified through your infertility. But we must pray that it's revealed to us.

And discussions about being open to children aren't meant to hurt you, just as discussions about the things I cannot do aren't meant to hurt me.

Peace and love to you in Christ!

Posted by: Jill | May 29, 2006 8:00 AM

Jennifer -

My position on this is consistent with the way I feel about people coming into a basically harmless discussion and demanding politically correct language.

For some reason, our culture has fostered a mentality of people taking things personally, accusing people of hurting their feelings and demanding the discussion cease or conform to their worldview.

As a communicator, I'm sensitive to those interruptions to the flow of discussion - and I see them as self-centered and unecessary.

To me, it's an issue of understanding boundaries and realizing that in spite of your own experience, life goes on for others. The Bible tells us to rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn. It does not tell us to stop rejoicing because we might hurt someone's feelings.

I can tell you that my own conduct is consistent with this. I have four kids with Down syndrome. Not everyone who comments here uses the politically correct language. But I have never had my feelings hurt or tried to shame anyone by accusing them of thoughtlessness. I just don't take it personally.

No one is responsible for my feelings except me. I choose how to respond. And unless there's something glaringly wrong, I try to assume the best about my fellow believers.

If Christians had mantras, I think the first line of Rick Warren's book The Purpose-Driven Life would be one of my favorites: "It's not about you." It's a good thing to remind myself when I'm taking things more personally than necessary or appropriate.

Posted by: barbaracurtis | May 29, 2006 8:02 AM

What about people like me, Barbara? I have two small children (it will be three in about four weeks), but I am unable to have children naturally. I am 5'1" tall with a small frame. My doctor said that the reason that I could not have my first child naturally and that I had an emergency c-section was because my pelvic structure is too small to allow a baby to pass through the birth canal. I am very fertile, though, and have gotten pregnant immediately each time we tried. I actually conceived my second baby while still nursing my first several times a day, and before I ever got my period again. So, what about someone in my situation. I get pregnant very easily, but cannot have babies naturally. My doctor told me that I could safely have four to five children at the most (total...not more than what I have now) by c-section before the risk to my life became too great. 100 years ago, I suppose that I would have died in childbirth or given birth to stillborn babies, without the medical advances of today. I am very thankful that I can have children by whatever means. How does a situation like mine fit with your philosophy? My feelings are not hurt one bit by your position. So, please don't tell me I'm being too sensitive or worry about that. I just want to know what you would do in my situation. I have read a lot about the quiverfull movement and philosophy. I also know a lot of people in my particular circle (Inependent Fundamental Baptist) who practice this. Some of them I find very admirable, and others make me feel ashamed that they are associated with the same churches that I am. I don't have super strong feelings about this phiosophy one way or the other, but I am very curious as to what you guys (especially you, Barbara) think about someone in my position, who can get pregnant very easily but cannot have babies naturally. Choosing to continue to have babies would be choosing to risk leaving the children that I have motherless.

Posted by: Rachel | May 29, 2006 8:48 AM

Barbara, thank you for sharing that. I agree with you 100%, and I love your testimony.

For those who are struggling with infertility, and offended by Barbara's post--it seems to me your reaction proves that infertility is a curse. Now, before you start hollering at me, I am NOT talking about a "curse" in the sense that God looked down and decided you wouldn't be a good mom. Please, please, read that sentence again. I'm NOT saying you are bad and therefore cursed. I'm talking "curse" in the sense that it is something bad, something incredibly painful and hard to live with. In the sense that Hannah was cursed. And Sarah. And these were women of God, who are our examples. So where did they take thier pain? To God! And what did He do? He blessed them! And Sarah did recieve a blessing, even though after all those years of longing and crying she only recieved *one* child.

We cannot be silent about the anti-child attitude of the world and of many Christians because some women are grieving the children they cannot have. And saying that an anti-child attitude is wrong and unGodly has *nothing* to do in any way with infertility, so I still don't quite understand how offense was taken. Children are blessings. Large families are gifts from God. *He* has said so, can we disagree with Him?

There is a great blog whose writer agrees with Barbara on this subject, but who has also experienced infertility, and is mother to only one. You might find her persepective helpful. The blog is www.biblicalwomanhoodonline.com/blog

Posted by: Margaret | May 29, 2006 8:53 AM

Rachel -

I do not have all the answers to specific cases like yours. I don't pretend to.

I stated my experience and my beliefs. I do not spend my time judging people for the decisions they make in this area. I was simply answering those who wondered what I believe and why.

I do not regard birth control as a sin as I do not regard lack of tithing as a sin. I regard it as a faith issue. Each of us has different issues we are working on as we try our best to continue allowing God to mold and shape us into the people he wants us to be.

When I was younger, I was very judgmental of people who didn't do things MY WAY. One of the glories of getting old is having a better understanding of the world and individual people.

The only thing that puzzles me about these discussions is why when a woman states her willingness to forego birth control, some readers raise questions like this, as if to lay a trap and say, "Ah ha! This invalidates her beliefs."

My belief that I should not use birth control and my respect for women who have made a similar decision cannot be invalidated because of a few tough cases that I do not pretend to have the answers to.

I wrote my piece carefully to avoid any taint of judgmentalism and ended it on a note that made it clear I do not judge others for decisions different than mine.

I really think that some of you who have these knee-jerk reactions to women who espouse these views need to rethink things a bit. We are not playing intellectual mind games here - or at least I'm not. This is not the intention or mission of my blog.

I do agree that some QuiverFull people come across as self-righteous and judgmental, and if you are a QF mom reading this, I beg you to rethink your position - especially when you can see the damage it does to the body of Christ.

(I feel the same way about homeschoolers who are judgmental and self-righteous. Self-righteousness never won any hearts to Christ :)- or to anything, for that matter. Self-righteousness has to be the supreme turn-off)

But it's time for those of you who've formed a reaction based on the shortcomings of others to let go and stop feeding the cycle of negative behavior. Stop the hurt feelings and stop trying to lay intellectual traps for women who are really trying their best to be obedient to their personal calling.

If I am coming across harshly here, just remember that my love language is exhortation (whether it's considered one or not :) - getting people to accept personal responsibility and working toward emtional/spiritual health and freedom. I am more exhorter than nurturer. I thank God for the nurturers who hang out and comment here to provide the balance. And I thank you all for being patient with me.

Posted by: barbaracurtis | May 29, 2006 9:33 AM

Just a note, Mrs. Barbara, to say how nice it was to read your article today (weekends are always busy for me). Over the weekend my dh and I found out we are now expecting our third. This little one will be born when our oldest girl is 3 1/4 (this baby was concieved on big brother's 1st birthday, cool, huh?).

I know that from now on it will be increasingly difficult to blend in with the crowd a look like a normal, politically correct family. It is such a gift to have people like you who are on the same page with our walk with God to let HIM be the Master of our lives in the area as well.

Thank you.

Oh, yes, Rachel, and other women struggling with physical issues, I don't know what to tell you about your own situation long term. However, this message desperately needs to be told to the multitudes of perfectly healthy, capable (through Christ) women who name the name of Jesus but have never considered letting the Creator of the Universe use them as His instruments to bring as much life and light as He wills to this world through their yielded bodies.

Posted by: Cheri | May 29, 2006 9:57 AM

Barbara, thank you for your reply. I think that you misunderstood my intent, though. I honestly was not trying to invalidate your philosophy, because I don't disagree with it. I don't think it was a kneejerk reaction to ask the question, because I was honestly trying to ask a real question. I am honestly, sincerely wanting to learn more about this. I gave all the details of my personal situation, because I truly wanted to know what you would do. I didn't know before I asked how you would answer. I kind of thought that maybe you would either tell me that I should just "leave it up to God", or that you might tell me you didn't know. I accept the "I don't know" that you did give me, because I truly don't know. I am trying to decide what to do for myself right now, as I am having a baby in a few weeks and have to decide what to do as far as the birth control issue. My husband wants to have a vasectomy, and I want to put it off for a while because of my age. This subject is very relevant to me right now because of this decision, and I was asking my original question because I honestly wanted to know where my type of situation falls in your own beliefs.
I really hope that you get that I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive in my first post, because I have been a daily reader of yours and I really truly admire you so much. I don't agree with absolutely every point you ever make, but I do agree with you most of the time. I would hate to think that you have marked me as one of "those" women who try to stir things up. I'm honestly just trying to find peace in my own situation.
Also, I wanted to say that when I referred to the people I know who I am ashamed to be associated with, it wansn't because of a self-righteous attitude, but because these particular people don't take care of all of these kids that they are having. I totally admire people like you who hold to the quiverfull philosophy and do an honorable job of parenting their kids. These particular families that I have met meet the quiverfull part of saying that they will accept any children God blesses them with, but they fail to follow the rest of the idea, I think. They don't take care of their children financially, and they are constantly leaving their children with anyone willing to watch them for a while. They have the babies, but they don't put the effort into raising them the way that they should. I totally get that you are not that way, nor do I think that many women who would take the time and effort to research (through your site and others) being better mothers and how to help their children learn and grow are likely to be the same type of women as I have mentioned. I just wanted to clarify what I meant, because it wasn't just that I see people with a self-righteous attitude about something like this and say "oh, that invalidates the idea behind it". I get that they are taking part of the idea, and leaving out the hard work and commitment that goes along with it. The only reason I mentioned it in the first place was just to say that I don't have a firm opinion on whether the philosophy in itself is right or wrong, but I've seen both sides of the coin in my real life acquaintances.
I hope this hasn't been too long and rambly, but I just want you to know that I wasn't trying to cause any trouble. This is just an area that I have really been trying to figure out for my self, and I honestly wanted to know what you would do in my situation...because I don't know what to do in my situation. With my baby's birth very immenent (June 26), I feel like I have this huge decision on my doorstep, and I don't know what to do about it. Not having any women in my current church who I think are even familiar with these ideas to have these discussions with and not having a mother that I can go to for advice, I always end up turning to internet acquaintances for advice. I guess leaving out the personal interaction also leaves out the sense of where I am coming from and my intent in asking.
Just as an endnote, I had already made the decision of what to do as far as birth control after having the baby according to what my OB had told me about a certain form of BC. However, the other day, I followed the link from your first post on this topic, and found out that the info that she gave me wasn't exactly the way she led me to believe. So, now I'm back to square one again.

Posted by: Rachel | May 29, 2006 10:03 AM

Oh, Rachel, I am so sorry! Talk about knee-jerk reactions! Guess I am not immune myself.

That is a serious decision you are faced with. All of us at MomyLife need to be praying for you as you try to make the right choice.

Interestingly, my new daughter-in-law comes from a family of 6 girls - all born by Cesarian. I had heard you couldn't have that many, but somehow this mother did - and that was back in the 80s and 90s.

Have you ever gotten a second opinion?

And thinking a little more, I can see what you mean about people who are QF but let their kids run amok. I do know a family like that in our area. But I forgot about them because our church is full of the big families where the parents are very conscientious and work hard.

Now that I understand where you were coming from. I am really sorry for speaking so harshly. You certainly didn't need that to add to your burden.

I do hope you will keep us posted. And those vasectomy reversals are pretty expensive, so I don't know if I would make that final a decision - even though it can be undone.

Posted by: barbaracurtis | May 29, 2006 10:35 AM

Barbara,

How wrong you are about my motives on all accounts! However, I apologize for being a stumbling block. I did not realize that the forum, in this case, was meant as a place of oasis for like-minded ladies, and in saying that I don't mean to be flip or sarcastic. Finding a quiet place to fellowship and encourage each other is laudable and understandable and I sincerely apologize for not "getting it." I put my foot in it (not as uncommon as I would like, unfortunately.)

I was not trying to invalidate; I was trying to point out that there is more than one way of worshipping and being faithful to our Lord, although there is only one way to salvation. Please forgive me that it did not register with me that you were trying to say the same thing. Apparently I was not at my sharpest! It did not help my case that I started out by throwing out scripture verses that we all are familiar with as if I knew better than others do...truly, I was writing in a hurry, scripture was quickest, and I was writing piecemeal throughout the day. I was intrigued by the subject but didn't have the time to spend on a lengthy reply until later, and then what I did write was apparently disjointed.

I would like to say that anyone who truly wishes not to be divisive will be careful not to use divisive terminology such as "merely anti-abortion as opposed to pro-life" (not quoting verbatim, just paraphrasing how it was written) or to say that Christian sisters are not obeying Christ if they don't have child after child after child (I don't believe there's anything wrong with that, though! God purposes us each for His glory and will.)

Each person's relationship with Christ is personal and individual, and God uses us according to our talents and gifts. Paul lauded those who remained single--and to wit, those people should have no children. It was the people that could not abstain that should marry rather than burn. Are they, the single folks, then, to be pitied or reviled because they have no children? No, God has purposed their life in that way. I'm sure He also blesses them greatly. I think it is hurtful and confusing (although not to me personally) to say that those that have not been called the way you have are not following Christ as they ought. The New Testament clearly points to those kinds of differences in practice/worship as valid to the individual but not sin.

What you are doing is spectacular, and I think you all should be praised--the Lord is doing a good work through you. You have truly been blessed! However, other women should not have to be put through more pain or confusion through this topic if they are unable to have children or have more children (I am NOT implying that you are doing this, only that this topic can have those far-reaching effects). God is not punishing them--and I don't believe God punishes those who choose NOT to have children. And I highly doubt blessings are all about more, more, more (again, not implying that this is what you meant, only that sometimes less leads to more--like in George Muller's life, and sometimes more means a person is greatly beloved.) I hope I am as content with the quality of His blessings as I am with the quantity of His blessings. And no, quality does not mean perfection. It means that each gift is incredibly precious, and single reward can have whatever far reaching effects God wants.

Please don't think I have taken anything personally; I haven't and don't think you are wrong to give your life to Christ as you have done. I applaud it. You are greatly blessed in children, an incredible witness, and talents. However, I haven't seen anything in the scripture references thrown about on this subject that will change my mind (as you said...yet). And in any case, I might be convicted to practic as you do, but not judge others for their choice not to practice as I do. The references are VALID and consistent, but God allows in the New Testament, through grace, not the law, for worship and practices in many different ways without considering one over the other as sin. Life can be valued in more ways than just having children. I give my time and love to my young cousins, other people's young children, nieces and (soon to be) nephews, and count them all as blessings in my life as well. I love my child fiercely and plan to have more in God's time and according to His will, but I don't think that necessarily rules out using our resources, talents and such to humbly and prayerfully to ask if our thoughts on family planning run in accordance with His will. Actually, we will shortly find out if they do. If not, then the Lord knows when and I'm not too worried about it. But as long as I am able, I will not fail to plan. I am responsible to God for my good stewardship of His blessings to me.

Our God is not the God of confusion. Our consciences prick us to guilt, but sometimes Satan uses that--human beings are very suggestable. However, guilt is something we can take to the Lord to be absolved--Christ freed us at the Cross. We don't need to carry it around with us, whether we should feel guilty for sin, or in the case of the women here, or should not feel guilty because they have NOT done anything wrong in the eyes of the Lord. I have been impressed with everyone's sensitivity towards the women who unnecessarily feel guilt; I am not qualified to speak to their pain and confusion, but have been glad to see that they have been encouraged and loved here. My cautions are for the future and where topic often leads. Which was the point you made in your last post!

I hope I have been more lucid this time, but I doubt it. Please forgive me for this; I am not trying to strive with you, I am trying to share a slightly different opinion. This is the last I will say on the matter, and I apologize if I have caused any offense at all.

Respectfully and with love (and I don't usually sign anything this way unless I mean it, so I'm not trying to manipulate by saying it),
Stephanie

Posted by: Stephanie | May 29, 2006 1:15 PM

First things first: Mrs. Curtis says "When I was younger, I was very judgmental of people who didn't do things MY WAY. One of the glories of getting old is having a better understanding of the world and individual people."

Ok, admit it Mrs. Curtis, you said that because of my letter this weekend, right? Haha! Just kidding. I just found it so funny that you said it because I have been hearing this more and more lately. As I get older I see that I don't know much about anything sometimes! :) I keep trying to tell my hardheaded daughter this but she never seems to listen to me about this. (she is a really good girl, just stubborn!) Gee, I wonder where she gets it from? :-)

Second thing, about the c-sections. I read somewhere that Rose Kennedy has somethign like 11, I believe. I personally have had 1 natural birth (and believe me it was ALL natural! OUCH!) and 4 c-sections. My dr has told me that he has delivered 7 babies to the same woman by c-section. He said for most people it is a case by case basis. As long as the uterine wall is healthy and the scar heals well then there is ususally no problem.

I know this does not solve the issue of being small in body frame but I give you some encouragement. My grandmother who is a itty bitty thing delivered 13 children, all natural births. From what I understand there were times that they thought she couldn't have more but she just shushed them and carried on. I will be praying for you Rachel!

Blessings in Christ~
Mrs. DMG

Posted by: Mrs. DMB | May 29, 2006 1:26 PM

Stephanie -

You said: "I would like to say that anyone who truly wishes not to be divisive will be careful not to use divisive terminology such as "merely anti-abortion as opposed to pro-life" (not quoting verbatim, just paraphrasing how it was written) or to say that Christian sisters are not obeying Christ if they don't have child after child after child"

I almost didn't publish your comment because although there is some conciliatory stuff in in, you are still accusing women here of saying things that were never said.

As to my remark about anti-abortion vs. pro-life, that is an accurate description of the truth. I stand by it.

I really regret that what was meant to be an honest and vulnerable answer to questions readers have asked me - and which some women found some much-needed encouragement from - has been sidetracked by those who seem to hear condemnation where there was none at all.

As you yourself said, I had covered many of the bases you are taking more words to cover in your comment. So it's difficult for me to understand the argumentativeness.

Posted by: barbaracurtis | May 29, 2006 1:28 PM

I would like to add something if I may. I have several aunts who have conceived children but have lost them in miscarriage. Two of these women have taken what God has given them (the inability to carry to term) and walked with it. They are wonderful nurturing women who will care for other people's children, usually anytime they are asked! I have never heard of them complaining what God did or did not do to them. They have just decided that life is too short. They know that they are blessed in other ways. Not having children has allowed them to do things that perhaps, mothers are not able to do. My aunt bakes like a mad woman and shares her treats with others.(and I mean a all day long kind of thing, several times a week!) My other aunt makes pretty little things and blesses others with them. I know that there are times of sadness, especially over the children that they lost in miscarriage but overall, it seems like what matters is the perspective they have about it. I don't say this to cause hurt feelings but to let you know that by not having children, surely there are paths that God wants you to go down that I will never be blessed with because I do have children to care for. Just thought I would share. I prayerfully hope this blesses someone.

Posted by: Mrs.DMG | May 29, 2006 1:38 PM

Sweet ladies who struggle with infertility - you are not less blessed...God just has a different path for you. If you are open to life, but unable to conceive, then there are many ways for you to affirm life. There is working with children in church, in backyard Bible clubs, with the untold elderly that nobody cares about in nursing homes...there is adoption, as is so often mentioned. I feel this IS a case where it is "a matter of the heart." God sees your heart, He knows your attitude, He knows your desire to have children. Honor Him by honoring all of life, by working to save it and sanctify it. Don't stop praying that He will give you a child...I always think of Hannah, and how she persisted, and how God granted her prayer. Do not feel offended, do not feel hurt, do not feel less blessed than your fertile sisters in Christ. You are not less - you are a member of the beautiful body of Christ and He has a purpose and a plan for you.

Posted by: Holly | May 29, 2006 2:05 PM

This is an issue I've been thinking long and hard about as of late. I'm pregnant with my first, and am glad that the Lord has been so good to us.

When I was engaged, I was disappointed that no one would even discuss the issue of birth control with me. Our ecclesiastical leader only said that if we used NFP, we'd be parents in no time, and aside from that he had no advice for us and he didn't condemn any form of birth control (save abortion). My parents simply assumed I would start on the pill. My in-laws assumed that we would follow their lead and let God bless us as He saw fit.

But no one said anything to us! It was frustrating, because I now wish someone had taken the time to kindly suggest we turn the matter over to the Lord. I foolishly decided that since I'm still in college a baby was out of the question. After months of being whispered to in numerous ways, we realized that it wasn't His will for us to be using birth control at all. Now I'll probably deliver two weeks before I graduate, but I have faith in His ways and His timing and just thought I would share my experience.

Posted by: Emily | May 29, 2006 5:15 PM

Thanks Barbara for the openhearted sharing on a topic that is definitely personal and not often discussed. Your message and all the comments were very interesting to me and got me thinking about some of the assumptions my opinions are based on as my personal opinion on birth control is quite different than yours, and I don't think I know anyone in "real" (rather than online)life who espouses your particular point of view.

As a mother I really appreciate how often you talk about being open to one's children and their needs, including in this message. Your blog is an encouragement to me both in general attitude (it is my job to do the work to give my son the parenting he needs) and in specific tangible ways (i.e. I moved my son's tableware to one low drawer and cloths for wiping to another). I feel like you've made being the first-time mom of a toddler a more enjoyable and meaningful experience for our whole family. Thank you!

Alison

Posted by: Alison | May 30, 2006 1:55 AM

I have no problem being pro-life and open to life. One of the main motivating factors of my conversion to catholicism in 2000 was that humanae vitae just rang so true to me. It wasn't that it was necessarily that I was convincted intellectually, but it spoke to my conscience as truth.

Having children for me is effortless and thrilling. I have few problems letting go of fears and concieving baby after baby...
but I do have problems parenting my born children. I am just an aloof/distant kind of person, and it is hard for me to stay mentally present enough to be a good parent.
I had a bit of a traumatic childhood and I think I developed a bit of an attachment disorder because of that.

I actually get jealous of really good parents. They make it seem like it so easy for them. They are so involved and inlove with their kids. Nothing about motherhood seems to come naturally to me EXCEPT concieving and having them.
I find it ironic that women who are such exceptional parents would doubt whether or not they should have more. How can parenting come so naturally to someone who is an excellent mother, and being open to life be so difficult for her?
It is very ironic to me.

Posted by: paigeu | May 30, 2006 3:23 AM

by the way..

When you were naming your boys, did you know you were giving them middle names after Archangels? You mentioned significance and unless that was it I may have missed it. I think thats neat if you did.

On Catholicism-
The most controversial issue in catholicism isn't Mary, or the Pope, its the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. If you believe in the Real Presence then all the other stuff starts to make more sense. But if you believe that Communion is only meant to be symbolic, then nothing within catholicism makes sense and it would naturally seem very cultish and strange.

And I am not trying to be divisive either, but I never understood a lack of belief in the Real Presence. That is one of the only things within the new testement that seemed so specific, so cut and dry, so important, that to deny it is beyond my comprehension.
In fact most of the old and new testemant doesn't seem to make as much sense unless you see it as a prefiguration of Christ in the Eucharist. The manna from heaven, the feeding of the 5,000, Passover, wedding of cana (I could go on and on).

Anyway, I won't go on about theology because I really respect the protestants that come to this community and I know how vigorously they all defend what you believe (lol), but if anyone does want to talk about the churches teaching on the Eucharist I would be very open to discuss it through emails.

Posted by: paigeu | May 30, 2006 3:50 AM

You go, Emily! I'm glad you have some close family who are supportive. It makes such a difference knowing there are at least a few who understand and approve of your decisions.

I had much of the same situation when I was considering marrying a pastor who was pro-NFP and realized how the idea was bothering my conscience. I knew what my parents thought, but no one else it seemed would seriously face up to this life changing issue.

God can be trusted with everything!

Posted by: Cheri | May 30, 2006 5:23 AM

Um, wow. I don't think I've ever been misread so completely before. Maybe in trying to word things carefully I came across as whiny instead.

Barbara, I really, truly liked your original post. I have no complaints about it. It gave me a lot to think about.

I merely found an underlying attitude in some (not all!, just a few!) of the comments that troubled me.

I wasn't crying over my computer or anything. And I almost didn't comment at all, until I saw that another lady struggling with infertility saw the same attitude that I did.

Anyway, I don't go looking to disturb conversations. I've been reading your blog for a while now, and I didn't come here with some underlying agenda. I didn't mean to take your discussion off the rails. I merely thought to provide a point of view from someone with a different experience.

OK. Last comment on this. You don't need to respond. I just wanted to clarify.

Posted by: Jennifer | May 30, 2006 8:48 AM

I agreed with this post as well. When we were first married, my husband and I committed our family to God. At the time, we thought that we might not have any children because of my medical history and had already discussed adoption. Weren't we surprised when seven months into our marriage we found out I was pregnant!

This next part is another question because I am truly struggling with this. Like I said, I agree wholeheartedly with your post. My parents were open to children and there are four of us and four in heaven. I do believe that openness to children is one of the things that seperates (or should seperate) Christians from the world. Unfortunately, I'm one of the exceptions.

I now have three children under the age of five (and one in heaven as well). I have a heart defect and this last pregnancy put a lot of strain on my heart. I didn't even realize until after the baby was born how awful I felt. I've also dealt with post-partum depression (still do, even though the baby's six months old). My doctor has strongly advised us to not have any more children. He has been very supportive all along, even though he said most doctors would have recommended against a third pregnancy. And truth be told, I'm pretty overwhelmed. I tire easily, my heart function isn't 100%. In fact, it's 45% (which was better than the doctor thought it would be!). I'd be ready for a break no matter what!

But I am really having a hard time saying "no" to more children. I do believe that it's saying "no" to more blessings. My very life is testimony to both God's ability to do miracles and well as the fact that doctors aren't always right! My husband I and are not united on this issue. I believe that I have the faith to trust God with my life and health. But my Dh has no interest in losing me in childbirth or even earlier in life than is necessary. My longterm prognosis is uncertain as it is. I am terrified of having a tubal. I feel like this a "rubber meets the road" moment and I'm afraid I'm going to fail. On the other hand, the last year+, which is a big chunk of the young ones' lives, has been awful. I have not been the mother I want to be partly because I don't have the energy. And I don't know that more pregnancies wouldn't mean that my children would have to go even longer without a mother who has the energy to go places and do fun things. I'm afraid that I'm already spending too much of their time while they're young being tired and crabby and depressed. And what's the point of having them if you can't raise them well?

So far, no one has given me an answer that addresses my situation and makes sense for me. If I were completely healthy, this would be a no-brainer. And adoption is not out of the question, although I think God would have to work on my DH's heart for him to open to more children (he comes from a long line of two-child families). I think part of what makes this hard for me is that I know that while he mostly doesn't want to risk my health, I also know he really doesn't want any more children. He claims he doesn't want to have young children when he's 50 (we're in our early 30s). I think, who cares?

So, I'm really glad you posted about this topic, Barbara. I do think that in general Christians need to take a stand against "playing God" and the view of children as disposable accessories that has so permeated our culture. It's because I am so committed to the sanctity of life and our calling as Christians that this is so hard for me. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to share my struggle with you and your other readers. Keep up the good work!

Posted by: Sarah | May 30, 2006 4:12 PM

Sarah, your situation truly is a "rubber meets the road" type of one. I certainly can't tell you what you SHOULD do, but I can tell you what I would do (or at least I would think I'd do ;-) ) if I were in your situation.

With your heart condition, is it something that can be corrected? I would pursue whatever avenues necessary to be as healthy as possible, not just because of pregnancy but just because! ;-)

You said that your husband is not wanting you to have another child. Then honestly the decision has already been made and isn't up to you. I wouldn't feel comfortable using abortive birth control methods (pill, patch, IUD, Norplant, Depo, etc.) or having a tubal or having my husband get a vasectomy, but there are other options that your husband can use if he wants to use birth control. The ultimate responsibility lies with him.

Now, if he's like my husband, he'd be asking me what I thought LOL. So here is what I would do if it WERE up to me (but it's not, but you know what I mean). I'd be white-knuckling it. LOL! God knows about your heart condition. He knows what is best for you, your family, your situation. I would lay all that at His feet, and then I'd hang on tight! He may not answer the way I think He *should*, but He is God and I can trust Him. He has allowed me to go through the wringer enough times to know that. :-S Or you never know, He may have decided that three is how many children you're supposed to have. If that is the case, I can guarantee that you will not have any more, no matter what measures you do/do not take.

I'd encourage you to seek the Lord, immerse yourself in His Word, don't let fear be the decision maker, and see what He tells you. :-)

Posted by: Keer | May 30, 2006 5:09 PM

Sarah, if I could be so bold as to offer my thoughts....
perhaps God is speaking to you through your husband and your doctor and the needs of your already born children, perhaps what you can realize is that you already let God be the decision maker (on your family size) when he led you to marry your husband...
Best wishes, Alison

Posted by: Alison | May 31, 2006 5:46 PM

Barbara:

This was a fantastic post. It obviously is one that can stir up deep conflictual emotion as well. I am saddend by all of the reactivity to such a topic, but I am not surprised either. Satan has done a remarkable job of taking our thoughts captive on the subject of children.

I do wonder if a barren womb isn't a curse in this sense:

It hurts worse than anything I have ever experienced. It alters and distorts my joy of the Lord and ability to rejoice with others who have had what I longed for.

Yes, that's right you heard me use the words "I" and "me". I was barren for five years after my first miscarriage. My miscarriage happened within the first year of our marriage. It was a curse to me. No amount of positive thoughts could get me past the pain of losing a baby and not concieving. Everywhere I looked I say pregnant bellies, women having kids who could care less about them and pregnant teens. I thought I deserved a baby more than they did. Now I realize how ugly that thought is to God. I pushed Him out of heaven and put myself on the throne and determined who should be the vessel for life. Being barren was not only a curse to me, but a curse to everyone I was around. I was not letting my light shine for the glory of God. In fact, people were scared to tell me they were pregnant. How awful is that? It is outright very awful. Children are blessings, but they are not our only blessings. When God choses not to bless us with a child, we need to look into our life and rejoice. He has a better plan for us. We need to count our other blessings too. We can't let the trial of infertility deminish our effectiveness in the work of the Lord. We should not covet the blessings God has given others either. That five long years of infertility just about ate my lunch and I spent five years of puting my light under a basket.

God did bless us with another child. In fact, we now have six. I did have another miscarriage between pregnacy four and five. I didn't bat an eye and praised God in the trial because I remembered the curse I placed on myself when I was barren. It didn't just hurt me (my bad attitude) but hurt God most importantly. Others were so affected by my bitterness. God commands us to count it all joy when we face various trials. I finally learned to do that and I tell you it was sensational. It IS sensational. I concieved this past Novemeber and by Janurary began a very long challenging miscarriage. I learned I was carrying triplets. Physcially it was hard, but spiritually I rejoiced like no other. I have had people call me a fertile myrtle and I gasp at the thought. Yes, I have been blessed with living children. I have also been blessed with blessings that are in heaven. The score is six living here with me and five precious babes in heaven. Sadly, I can't say that I triumphed over infertility. I was wickedly bitter. Why God chose to bless me with a baby, is beyond me. I was a terrible witness in those days. Infertility really does hurt more than any other kind of pain I have experienced and I have experienced a lot of pain.

When a person raises the topic of fertility and blessing there is bound to be much heat. Satan has a vested interst in holding us captive through a distorted view of birth, fertility and fruitfulness. I am not surprised at how your light shining here, Barbara, has exposed darkness for some.

God Bless you as you continue to let your light shine!!

Posted by: KSMilkmaid | June 1, 2006 4:31 PM

Barbara, I really enjoyed your post.

KSMilkmaid, thank you so much for sharing your story. Wow. I also agree with you that infertility must be one of the most painful things imaginable. Before I was married, more than one doctor told me that I would "have a hard time getting pregnant". (Huh? Turned out this was all ridiculous old doctors' tales, but how was I supposed to know at the time?)

My mother and mother-in-law both conceived "honeymoon babies" and my husband and I decided rather quickly after marriage (within the first few weeks) that we would welcome our first child whenever God saw fit to send him/her. Our little guy was born right before our first anniversary. But, before he was conceived, I went through a time of such agony and distress and fear that I would never be able to have a child. Once I was pregnant, I wondered how anyone managed to struggle with infertility for more than a few months without going completely insane with grief. I fully understood why Rachel in the Bible cried out in desperation, "Give me a child or I die!"

When I was pregnant with our third, we began getting a lot of criticism and unfunny jokes from people at church. One woman found it hilarious to keep up a long running schtick about how pregnancy was supposedly contagious, so she wouldn't get anywhere near me. I was in the elevator one Sunday and she went on and on about, "I'm not getting in the elevator with you! Your condition might be contagious! I might catch the baby disease!" Standing next to me was a woman who was infertile --- which was well known to everyone in the church, as it had been a long term prayer request. She said, "Oh, how I wish it was contagious. I'd rub myself all over Rebecca if I thought that would get me pregnant."

I felt like crying. A lot of times we cry, "How unfair!" when someone gets a blessing that we want. I looked at my friend, who I knew would make a wonderful mother, and I wanted to cry out, "How unfair that I get pregnant so easily when my friend longs so desperately for a child!"

Children are precious gifts from God. I don't understand why some are blessed with more children than others. The Bible tells us to weep with those who weep, and I find it takes no effort at all for me to weep for all my sisters whose arms and hearts feel so empty.

We all have our various sorrows and heartbreaks that we must bear. I thank KSMilkmaid for sharing so poignantly her struggle and for reminding us to be sensitive to others while also not coveting the blessings of others. Sometimes it seems as if the hardest thing in the world is rejoicing with someone who has received the very blessing your entire being longs for.

That is why we need Jesus so desperately. He binds up the broken-hearted, and He helps us keep our gaze fixed on Him and on that glorious day when He will wipe every tear from our eyes.

Posted by: Rebecca | June 7, 2006 6:52 PM

Barbara,

Thanks alot for sharing your story! So, from reading your story it sounds like you have eight biological children. Is that right? Can I ask how and when did you stop having them? Did you all of a sudden stop getting pregnant or did you suffer some other medical problems etc?

Posted by: LH | August 27, 2007 6:56 PM

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