August 28, 2006 9:55 AM
Are kids from big families disadvantaged?
In response to my blog last week concerning liberals making themselves extinct by disdaining procreation, I received this comment from jpe@flashmail.com.
Actually, I don't want to have a ton of kids because I'd rather focus my resources on the few I have. Better a well-educated, well-loved one or two than a litter.
I wrote back:
Let's see who's who among my "litter" -A National Merit Finalist (16 when he earned it) who at 18 is preparing for the Air Force Academy.
A working actor (21).
An aspiring opera singer (20) studying at university for a professional career.
A 23 year old son who owns a construction company, bought a house in northern Virginia (not a cheap place to live) at 22 and got married shortly after.
All four of these sons have spent some summers working at a camp for disabled kids. They are compassionate and kind people.
A 16 year old beautiful daughter who makes straight A's and spends her summers directing theater camps for children - sometimes volunteer and sometimes paid. Postponing dating until much later (yay!)
A 13 year old daughter whose phenomenal voice gives her many opportunities to shine. she's been in 22 plays and sung the National Anthem at ball games numerous times.
Four kids with Down syndrome - because after our son Jonny was born, we adopted three more. Each of them enrich our lives immensely - as well as the lives of others in the community.
And then there are my older daughters:
A 36 year old mother of five who's preparing to adopt a baby from Guatemala. She homeschools, lives in a beautiful well-kept home and is very active in her community.A 30 year old daughter with five kids under 8 who also homeschools, lives in a lovely home and is a wonderful loving mother.
Since I'm not sure jpe@flashmail.com will receive my email, I'm posting it here. Often drive-by commenters adopt phony email addresses out of cowardice. And perhaps we could say that some people don't have more children for the same reason. Some people are afraid that they'll run out of time, energy, money - or as jpe puts it, "resources."
That's because they think of love as a zero-sum game governed the laws of addition and subtraction. But love's not like that. Really, the more you love you give, the greater your capacity becomes. Have any of you found that?
Yes, there are people who have large numbers of kids who aren't conscientious and intentional in their parenting - just like there are people with small numbers of kids who aren't conscientious and intentional in theirs. But there are growing numbers of parents who have decided that parenting is really all that, who have opened themselves to the possibility and delight of having a large family, receiving each child as a precious gift and raising each one to meet his or her God-given potential.
That's how Tripp and I saw it - which is why we produced a broad spectrum of interests and talents. We weren't molding our kids to do whatever pleased us, but providing them with opportunities to see where their individual gifts lay, then doing our best to support those gifts. This post isn't to brag about my accomplishments as a parent, but about how generous God is in bestowing gifts among us. To think that you have to have a small number of kids in order for them to reach their potential is ridiculous.
Among the big families I know, I see many kids with many talents. I also see - in general - parents more surrendered to being parents and less distracted by running after their own fulfillment. I actually believe that's as it should be. Part of good parenting demands self-sacrifice.
I'm really hoping to gather a lot of comments on this. For those of you with big families, speak up and tell us what's going on with your kids. My kids are no more perfect than anyone else's. In fact, my actor son is not practicing his faith right now. But my point is simply to answer jpe's charge - and the implication that kids from big families are somehow shortchanged when it comes to parental love and support.
Posted in Big families, Mothering | Permalink
Comments
I have to agree with you about large families. The really large families I knew as a kid have turned out well-rounded, talented adults. I was best friends with a girl who had seven siblings. Her older brother went to West Point. They all went to college. My friends who come from smaller families seem to be under so much pressure to achieve. It's like people forget that their children are real people who have real lives to live, not projects with a predetermined desired end result.
I don't think kids are shortchanged in parental love if the parents are paying attention. I know plenty of kids from small families whose parents pay no attention to them. I think it's really a matter of the parents' priorities than the number of children. In fact, I think most thoughtful parents will make more of an effort when there are more children. I know I do that with each of my three because there are opportunities for each to be overlooked - the responsible oldest who needs less supervision, the middle who's also the only girl, and the baby, who's the happiest, easiest-going baby I've ever met. And my friends who have more children act like each child is their "favorite." I don't know anyone right now who has more than six children, but I'm sure the principle still remains the same.
Posted by: Lucy | August 28, 2006 11:13 AM
We have 7 children ranging in ages from 22 - 3 yo. There are so many things that they have learned it is difficult to know where to begin.
We have been blessed with a studio that has a workstudy program for paying tuition (dance, art, theater). It doesn't matter who does the work to earn the time, but the lowest age is generally 9. My children couldn't wait to be old enough to scrape plates at the dinner theater to 'pay' for their classes. They took pride in the fact thay they could help and were very careful to be on time and do a good job. Because they had 'worked' for the class they were also careful to attend and to work hard. How many children attend classes and just goof off? How important is it to learn that wants are met by work or the joy in helping someone else 'earn' for what they want?
During a brief move (we didn't stay long) my oldest ds was tormented in the public school. He was quiet and kept a lot of the pain inside. It was so comforting to him to come home to younger siblings who ran to greet him at the door--his own fan club if you will. There were many, many times that he would sit and just hold the baby for the comfort it brought to them both. No explanations needed, just pure love. Who does the only child hold?
They have also learned that what it means have to wait and share (9 people + 1 bathroom = learning to give/receive graciously)
To know that the world doesn't revolve around you, but yet it does.
Children from large families learn to adapt, to deal with annoying 'co-workers', and to negotiate because the feedback is immediate and right to the point--without costing them their job. All are necessary skills for a successful adult life.
Yes there are small families who learn these same skills, but it is easier in a small family to keep your bad habits. There's more space to 'go-away' and hide with fewer people to be accountable to.
But for me as an adult from a large family there are more people to share the joys and the burdens. Your siblings know just how much each has cost because they know what came before. A friend may not know that petting a dog is a big deal, but your family knows about the dog attack 40 years ago. Somethings just cannot be explained but your family understands, loves, supports, and points in the right direction. And which is more reliable: one person or many (saying the same thing).
But mostly large families make you look past the end of your nose--if you don't someone is sure to tweak it for you!
Posted by: Stephanie | August 28, 2006 12:15 PM
A house full of ready-made best friends. Plenty of opportunities to learn responsibility and service. Parents who think children are valuable in their own right and not the sum total of the "resources" they consume. What's not to love about big families?
I remember being pregnant with my second child. My biggest worry was about having enough love for her. You give everything you have to the husband and child you already have and you wonder, "Where am I going to find more?" But there it is. The moment I held her in my arms, I knew there was nothing to worry about. I'm now expecting my sixth child and my biggest worry is how to arrange the furniture in the children's smallish bedrooms to accommodate another person. (It's a minor concern, isn't it?)
I may not be as "available" as I was for one or two, but I'm available all the time. A child with a concern will often tag along with me for a while, helping fold laundry or chopping onions, and chatting until she gets to what she wants to talk about. Then she'll stay because she feels loved and affirmed. Other times, I have to coax them to me with cookies and tea because they are so absorbed in each other. But it's all good.
My children are all fairly young yet. My eldest seems like she'll be the one to embrace motherhood and have a big family of her own. My second seems to have a heart for a religious life, and I wonder where that will take her. My son admires his daddy immensely (and rightly) and I imagine he'll be a soldier, too, someday. The other two I don't have a feeling about yet. They're all "ordinary" kids with a lot to offer the world.
And even though our resources are often stretched to their limits, I wouldn't trade a one of them for anything.
(It also occurs to me that people who refer to children as a litter had probably best not have any.)
Posted by: Jennie C. | August 28, 2006 12:46 PM
Personally, my experience is that large families usually have better behaved children than those who are from small families. The more siblings that you have, the more you realize that life isn't just about you. You are forced to work together as a team. Do chores together, play together, laugh together. I see large families as being so blessed. God tells us that children are a blessing from the Lord. I know through personal experience that my children are the primary source in my own refinement. They are constantly helping me see my own downfalls, and helping me draw closer to the Lord. We need to stop listening to what the world says is an adequate amount of children and start being led by the Holy Spirit.
Posted by: Carrie | August 28, 2006 1:10 PM
Reading your blog and those of other moms with large families has been such an eye opener. My parents had 4 and 5 siblings, respectively, and do a pretty good job of maintaining contact even though they live across the country. My husband and I are both middle children of 3... his mom was an adopted only child, whose parents loved her well and were part of a close knit, midwestern farming community. His Grandpa's hillside declares "Jesus Saves" in white rocks, and I wish I could have met him. He loved everyone. Hubby's dad is one of 4.
I have recently realized that we have been planning our family based on what we think we can afford. I've also realized that our faith is so small in that area. I'm 30, he's 28, and we have one precious daughter. It took us 6 years to start having kids, 6 years of cultivating our relationship.
Oh, to have the faith that the Lord will provide, and to recognize that children are truly a gift from Him. Our 10-month old is so precious, and while hubby still frets about the financial implication of more kids, we have also made the mutual decision for me to stop taking the pill and trust, like our grandparents had to. There are so many people who are unable to bear children, other people who bear children but probably shouldn't. I personally am sick and tired of worrying about financial implications when there is so much more to life. Even more importantly, for 2 "kids" who grew up in Christian homes, isn't it time we trust the Lord to be our Provider?
So anyway, as I ramble.. thank you for the example you set for those of us whose faith is often too weak to trust God to decide whether or family will be large or small. I've just ordered your Mommy Manual and look forward to reading it!
Posted by: Lauren | August 28, 2006 1:18 PM
One of the greatest gifts you can give your children is the gift of a sibling :)
Posted by: Lindsey | August 28, 2006 1:33 PM
I loved this: "There were many, many times that he would sit and just hold the baby for the comfort it brought to them both. No explanations needed, just pure love. Who does the only child hold?"
It just made my heart break, but in two different ways. One, Stephanie is right, who does the only child hold? That is just sad. On the other hand, for those of us who have several children and see the above everyday, it reaffirms that we are doing it right. I wouldn't trade my blessings for anything. Having found out that we are expecting our 6th child, I don't have any worries about what kind of children I am producing. I see it each day and I am thrilled with what I see.
From my experience, the people who say that they only want a certain amount of children (1 or 2, maybe 3) use the excuse that they don't have enough energy or resources but deep down I notice that they are very selfish people who don't really want to give the rest of thier lives to their children. These are the same people who claim they have ministries and such so that they can kick thier children out the door to daycare at 2 and 3 years old. It all boils down to selfishness, that is all it is. Is there a ministry so important that a servant of Christ should forgo having more blessings for Christ? I don't think so.
Posted by: Mrs. DMG | August 28, 2006 1:34 PM
I'm a 46 year old woman who has lived both lives. In my twenties, I got a bachelor's and master's degrees and a professional career. Hubby and I played golf and travelled and we were so self absorbed. As we entered our thirties, we felt that something was missing in our lives. Then to our surprise, we got pregnant and at 32 our oldest son was born. I have to say that it gradually changed my heart and the meaning of our life. From that point on, our lives slowly changed and we are a much happier, closer couple very much in love as we have both the same purpose in life, our family. We are celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary in a couple of days with our 5 children ages 14, 12, almost 10, almost 7 and 4. Our children have changed our lives completely. I have been a full time mom for almost 11 years now and I am so happy and content as with my husband. He too finds that a larger family makes for such a fun life. He is from a family of 8 children and I from only 2. It was so boring growing up and we have such fun with his 7 sibblings as he did growing up. I see our children interact, play, discuss and even argue and see how much they love each other. Friends come and go but family is precious as gold. My mom had rhumatoid arthritis for 30 years before she died 6 years ago and it was her family who stood behind her and helped her always. Her friends, one by one through the years all went away, only her and my dad's family stood by her all those years. Siblings are priceless! I for one wish I had more! and if I were younger, more children!
Charlene
Mom to 5 wonderful children who are ordinary but exceptional as caring, loving and generous people
Posted by: Charlene | August 28, 2006 3:08 PM
Well, I have five of the closest kids that I know ages 16 to 2. They work together better than my own siblings and I did. They are a team-even when they don't always want to be-and each brings their own complement to the group.
I am thankful for my large family and for all the wonderful things I have learned as a mother of five as a result.
My mother was an only child, as was her mother, and her mother before her. None of them ever understood the element of large families.
Maybe your writer was from a small family and was unable to see how understand how a large family works. I guess any number of scenarios is possible.
It is easy for someone to stand on the outside looking in and pass judgment about how their life differs. The challenge is to be able to see beyond what you don't know and realize that what is right for one family may not work for all...it doesn't make any parent any more or less of a parent-it only makes them different.
I hope your writer able to one day move beyond that narrow scope or reality of what is his or her life to see the world for something more.
Posted by: Rebecca P. | August 28, 2006 4:27 PM
The very nerve...I have been blessed with five children, and I occasionally think I love the next one more dearly than the previous. My baby girl gets more love and attention than even she can handle at times, from me and her 'fan club', as has been mentioned. We had a wonderful experience yesterday when our family took some missionaries out to lunch after church. This is rare for us- to go out to eat or to be face to face with missionaries, and my children just shined. The men went on and on about how well they were behaving (I said it was because they were busy eating:) and were so excited that we were going to have as many children as the Lord gives us. They come from countries where it is still considered an honor to bear children. Of course, I have days I don't think I can DO it ALL, and living counter to our culture is difficult. But times like yesterday fill my tank and keep me going a few more miles. Keep up the awesome work, all you mommies out there.
Posted by: Valerie | August 28, 2006 4:35 PM
In a few short (okay, long) weeks, we will be welcoming our sixth baby home, God-willing. The baby is eagerly anticipated not only by my husband and I, but by our first child. Our second. Our third, fourth, and fifth children.
There will be 14 arms outstretched, ready to feel the warm squirm of our new blessing. The baby will be kissed by everyone, admired, talked-to, fussed over, adored. The seven of us will keep our newest addition in our prayers and thoughts, just like everyone else.
What a lucky baby! I'd rather be born into a home bursting at the seams with love than sterile silence. What a privilege for my small children to see and know they were welcomed just as joyfully. They received the love, now they pass it on to one who is tender and small, fragile in comparison to themselves.
No education can rival the lessons learned around a big family dinner table.
The concerns of "jpe" betray a total lack of understanding about the very nature and source of all love---God. I am sorry he/she thinks it is finite. I'd hate to think I am only capable of loving 2.5 children and a golden retriever. What does that say about God? It's a good thing it was never said "God so loved 1/3 of the world that He gave His only begotten Son..."
There is room if you make it. There are resources if you are wise. There is love without limit. There are educational opportunities if you seize them and are able to recognize each child's gifting. Kids are not expensive. Lifestyles are expensive.
I wouldn't change one thing about having a "litter" of kids.
Meow.
Posted by: mopsy | August 28, 2006 5:20 PM
Right now I have 100 children a semester and 800 a week each summer for 8 weeks. However, I have no biological children of my own. While I still have a lot of life left at 30 I don't know if marriage and biological motherhood is ever in God's plans for me. But, let me tell you what I have seen in my 10 years in education. There are big families of only three children, families who love and cherish and trust and nurture. Sometimes I've even seen big families of two and on two occasions, one child. For whatever reason that was how the family worked out... Obviously I am not privy to the biological discussions of the household. However I have met many small families of one, two or three children where the parents were pushy, the children were spoiled and the love seemed scarce. I have never met a big family that way. Even families with many children and one parent (though they have other hurdles to overcome) are often the warmer, more well behaved students in my class. They learn the value of listening to each other, give and take, sharing and real friendship. The parents are often spread thinner than they want, but they are more able and aware of what children are and what they need so that they can work with the teachers. Parents with fewer children often believe the child over the teacher and foster bad behaviors in their children because of it. Parents of larger families have been around the block a time or two and know that kids need limits, discipline and that their child is not perfect. Further, they know when to really listen to the child. Often the child knows better how to handle themselves and when they really need help.
As I said, as someone who is not a biological parent myself, regardless of my hope and preference I don't feel I'm in a position to say right or wrong here, but I can say what I see in my classroom. If I could choose my students each year I would pick students from the biggest families first. What a classroom success that group would be.
(Also, understand that I can't and don't pick the classes that I teach. I love... again the more there are to love, the more I do... all my kids, even the ones I have to count to ten before talking to. I just mean that in a lot of ways from what I have witnessed the kids from larger families are more likely to be a part of my class that I look most forward to...)
Posted by: Sandy | August 28, 2006 7:30 PM
While I still consider myself somewhat a novice in the motherhood department (I have 5 children, but my oldest is only 6), I do know firsthand that the more blessings there are to love, the more love you have to bless them with. And I do agree that many times people don't have more kids out of cowardice, but when I see comments like those by jpe, I think it's out of selfishness, too-- selfishness "disguised" behind a mask of reasonings and justifications.
On a side note, one of the most special, beautiful, happy, godly families I know is a family of 12. Their lives truly radiate the love of Jesus.
Posted by: LsughterThoughts | August 28, 2006 7:47 PM
Ok, I might have to stop reading this thread! LOL! Y'all are making large families sound so wonderful that I'm even more sad that we can't have any more children biologically. I love the line that someone else quoted, too, about the son who'd hold the baby "for the comfort it brought to them both." I see my five-year-old hold our baby like that and it makes me sad that the baby will have no one to hold. Sadly, medical problems for me have necessitated that I have no more pregnancies. I know we can adopt, but God will have to work on my husband's heart and our finances for that!
I don't know how anyone could read these comments and not desire a large family. We've been so cheated and lied to. I will be satisfied with and will adore my three treasures, but I'm so glad to know that others welcome even more blessings into their lives.
Posted by: Lucy | August 28, 2006 11:36 PM
*Happy Sigh* This post and all the encouraging comments were like...sipping hot apple cider on a crisp fall day. Soothing, uplifting, calming...thanks so much, Barbara, and everyone commenting about the joys of large families! My first child is due in about 7 weeks, and my husband and I want to have many more children...we love the dynamics of big families! But it's so discouraging to have that idea beaten down day after day by almost everyone around us. It's so REFRESHING to be encouraged in this!
Posted by: miller_schloss | August 29, 2006 10:07 AM
Large families disadvantaged? Hardly!
Our 17 year old daughter is a senior in high school, earning straight A's, actively involved in school government, activities & sports. She volunteers her time to help underprivileged and during her summer vacation she had a 4 page list of of summer goals that would make most adults dizzy!
Our two junior high girls ages 12 & 13 are full of life & love. They spent 2 months earning over $1500 so they could travel to Hawaii for a week with their Granny. Their work ethic, tenacity & follow thru was impressive. They are responsible babysitters who are in "high demand". They both performed in a Narnia play this past Spring having leading roles as well as being student directors.
My 11 year old spit fire of a daughter is a leader extraordinaire. She can plan, organize, & put together any event, party or program she desires. She is sharp, inquisitive, analytical and intense. She is also one of the most caring & compassionate children I've known. We cannot drive or walk by a homeless person without stopping to help in some way.
Our 7 year old is a sweetheart. She strives to be just like her older sisters and yet has a unique personality all her own. She is creative, artistic & dramatic.
Our 3 year old is the joy of our family. She is a happy, energetic little girl who brings us all so much love. Whenever anyone feels stressed or needs a bit of love or happiness all they need to do is get down on their knees and play with this sweet girl or cuddle her on the couch and watch the cares of life melt away.
And in April 2007 we will all with great joy & anticipation welcome another awesome blessing from God into our family, our hearts & our lives.
No one in this growing family feels deprived of love or resources. In fact the love is much more abundant now than when we were an "average" family of 4. And the human resources are priceless & incomparable to any financial resources we may have had with a smaller family.
I would venture to say we are far from disadvantaged but rather we are one of the privileged in God's kingdom.
Posted by: Beth Lambdin | August 29, 2006 1:30 PM
As the product of a large family, I can definitly legitimately scoff at jpe's comments. I am no. 3 in a family of 7 children, and I can tell you its a long running joke in our home that each and every one of us kids are convinced that we are "the favorite." Thats because we were blessed with parents who had the ability and foresight to encourage each and every one of us in our individuality, as well as in our faith. Although one of my brothers is, like your son, not practicing his faith currently (what is it with the entertainment business?) all of us have been extremely successful, talented, and have been allowed to shine in our own way. I am currently pregnant with baby no. 3, and honestly have been getting a lot of flack about it, mostly from my inlaws. Why would anyone want to have more than 2 children, especially if you already have a boy and a girl? But I am continuing to perservere, put my faith in God to never give me more than I can handle and always provide.
Thanks so much for this post.
Posted by: Lydia | August 29, 2006 1:38 PM
OK, just had to throw this out there, since most of the comments all seem to be coming from the more is better side of the fence. To the person who said that having 1 or 2, maybe 3 children is selfish, I barely know how to respond. I feel like we should be doing more affirming of one another, not bashing.
I came from a family of 2 children (both parents come from slightly larger families) and my husband and I see ourselves having a smaller (2-3 kids) family, but I would not throw around insults about larger families. Some of y'all think we're selfish; some of us think y'all need to get off the "every sperm is sacred" train, but the important message is the importance of family, whether that family conists of 1 child or 12 children.
Fewer or more children says little to me about the quality of the parents or their motivation for parenting. We live in a city, so it would be physically impossible for us to have 12 unless we want 12 in one bedroom. Other families are just aching for more children, but can't have them for biological reasons, and I'm sure those people would just cry and cry to hear you call them selfish. Some people with smaller families do so because they understand their own personal limitations. More power to those mommies who are capable of doing an awesome job with 5,6,10 or 15, but not everyone is capable of that. I don't do great with chaos and I can get overwhelmed easily, especially when lots of people are around, and when I feel that way, I get snappish. Gosh, doesn't that sound like a Mom you would like to have?Because of my personality and limitations, I just don't think I am necessarily cut out to be a mother of a larger family. I would rather be a great mommy to the 2 or 3 I have than fail to understand myself and my limitations and be an okay mommy to more.
I guess it boils down to this: you know your family, yourself and your motivations. You can only know so much, if at all, about another family, their situation and their motivations, so let's all remember what Jesus said: "Just not least ye be judged".
Posted by: Suzy | August 29, 2006 5:04 PM
I come from a large family and grew up knowing a lot of large families. And while I'm not trying to be a dissenting voice in this chorus of how wonderful large families can be, I am frankly scared to have 'too many' children.
As the oldest daughter out of seven, I was always playing mini-mom to my younger siblings. In some ways, I resent having to grow up as fast as I did. In other ways, I am grateful for it because I see a real lack of maturity in many of my peers. The older I got (while still at home), the more I felt as though my parents simply didn't have the time or attention to spare for me because they were too focused on the younger ones.
Many of the people who were my friends growing up (those kids from the other large families I mentioned) are in horrible places right now. In the sense that they're completely rebelling against everything they were raised to be. This - until recently, praise God! - includes some of my own siblings. For my sister, it was a lack of attention on Dad's part. She looked for that love and acceptance in all the wrong places when she didn't receive it from him.
Now, I'm not saying that everything 'bad' in a child's life can be blamed on the parents. Everyone makes their own choices. But I can't help but wonder: If the older children of my generation had been lucky enough to have more time and attention lavished on them, would they be where they are now?
I'm afraid of having so many children that I will stretch myself too thin and not be able to meet their emotional needs in the way I should. Or would like to. So I'll pose the question: What is the trick? While you might have an endless capacity for loving your children, you simply don't have an endless capacity of time to spend with them. Where's the balance?
Posted by: Liosliath | August 29, 2006 7:33 PM
okay, you all have me crying....(pregnancy hormones maybe?) God is so good...just this last year have i come to know this blog, have i bought a few books, have i begun changing myself, has my dh been really noticing and wondering, we've both taken on praying...just this last year our hearts have changed dramatically and (this is what makes me cry...) we're both on the "same page" to have a large family if that is God's will for us...i cry when i think back to where we were and who we were, i cry when i think of how God has changed and challenged us, i cry when i think that He isn't done yet!(is He good or what?!) and reading this...and to think, it could be me, blessed so fully? and came so close to it not being "our family"..at stopping at our two...*sniffs*..the change has been dramatic in our home, and it's all owed to God, using this site..using Barbara, using each of your who comment, as His tools...and yet little unworthy me gets the great benefits and blessings!! Because each of you have taken the time to share, My family is forever changed...
thank you! to each of you, all of you..and God bless each of your families and little ones!
~Kristy
SAHM mom to Julia and Megan, a little turkey due on Thanksgiving day,and however many more God has preplanned for our family...
Posted by: kristy | August 30, 2006 8:19 AM
I have 7 children, the oldest is 8 and I'll be meeting the youngest sometime around Easter.
My husband is a construction worker. I suppose we don't have the 'resources' to have so many children - if we waited until we could afford it, we would have none!
We have lived in Denver (very expensive!), paying $800 rent for a 2 bedroom (we only had 4 kids then. Yes, they shared.)
We now live in a 4 bedroom, and the kids share their rooms still (except the oldest, he has a mental disorder and has his own room.)
I firmly believe that the greatest inheritance you can give your children are siblings.
Brothers and sisters will share the burden when you are ill or in a nursing home.
Brothers and sisters will be there when you are long gone.
These brothers and sisters, today, sometimes love the baby 'too' much! Imagine, poor little thing, always has someone to hug her, smile at her, play with her, sing to her, feed her - but doesn't have baby Reeboks or a TV in her room. Her older sibs always have someone to make a game with, and someone to share chores with, and a mama around to teach them to cook and make up stories- but, too bad, we couldn't get each one their own Playstation or Powerwheels. Poor, deprived children!
Besides, I don't know what jpe is complaining about - I am just doing my part to save Social Security and make sure there are enough taxpayers to pay for jpe's check!
Posted by: Lisa S. | August 30, 2006 11:57 AM
Thanks to Suzy for coming from the other side of the fence. And for reminding everyone that size doesn't matter. While I fully realize the benefits of having many siblings, it is indeed presumptuous to assume that everyone with "small" families is selfish. Immediate family is not the only kind of family that can provide a loving and nurturing atmosphere. I am happy to know that my child (possibly children, but right now only one) will be surrounded by young cousins and old who will play with her and nurture her in different ways than I and my husband can. I feel like there is so much narrowmindedness being presented here that I stopped reading the comments after a while. I'm glad you're happy to have and be from large families, but a great many people from small families turn out just as wonderfully.
Posted by: Beckie R. | August 30, 2006 3:56 PM
Suzy and Beckie - I normally don't publish drive-by commenters. Bu that I mean people who comment for the first time with a highly critical tone. To me it's as though someone barged into my home while my family was having a conversation just to challenge whatever discussion we were having. When you have nothing invested here, why should anyone here take whatever you have to say seriously? To avoid wasting time on fruitless arguments, I usually just delete argumentative comments. Beckie, your comment about the other side of the fence only reveals that you see this as an us vs. them forum. It's not.
Big families face a lot of prejudice and misunderstanding and - to use your word, Beckie - narrowmindedness. My blog is a place where women who have or are willing to possibly have big families can find encouragement and support. If you don't like hearing us supporting each other, then you are free to read other blogs or other stuff I have written at this one.
No need to argue. Those of us with big families will go on rejoicing that we have big families. No one said people from small families turn out badly, but people have said that big families can't produce accomplished kids - and that's what this post set out to refute. No need to defend your position.
Liosliath - your story and that of your siblings has not been finished being written. You may be surprised at what happens.
Since we're on the subject of big families, I think I'll rerun my Guerilla Parenting Series. You might look at #3 to see how accomplished kids from big families are.
Posted by: barbara | August 30, 2006 4:49 PM
Barbara,
I apologize for sticking my 2 cents in where they weren't asked for. I actually followed my sister's blog here (she has a large family) to read this post. The reason I reacted the way I did was because of the number of people who commented that children from large families are much nicer, more well adjusted people than children from small families. It bothers me when people make sweeping generalizations about a category of people. You should notice, however, that I did not criticize people who have large families...I actually applaud you all and admire you...I just criticized the way so many of you put down small families.
Posted by: Beckie R. | August 30, 2006 8:57 PM
Beckie - I don't think anyone was criticizing small families, but just applauding the virtues of big families.
The thing about sweeping generalizations is that there is truth to them. And people were careful to say that there are large families with poor parenting skills.
But by and large, my observation of large families is that the children are better adjusted, kinder, easier to get along with, etc - all the things verified by Sandy, a teacher whose comments in praise of kids from large families - and their parents - are pretty objective since she deals with hundreds of kids and is not a parent herself.
Plus she doesn't even have the homeschool kids from big families who are truly the cream of the crop. I'm sorry, but that's just an observable fact. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are just that - exceptions. No one is putting down small families here, just reporting on our observations.
Posted by: barbara | August 31, 2006 7:17 AM
Beckie R, and others,
I hope that my observations as a teacher (because I am not a parent) were not viewed as a critisism of "small" families. As I said I've seen "large" families of three, two and even one child that were very praise worthy. I was talking in generalities, I also acknowledged that there are sometimes other factors than desire for children in a family size and family make-up. What I am talking about is the attitude most prevelant in large families versus a common (not exclusive) situation that I run into with parents/children from smaller families in today's American society.
I don't think anyone here meant to "attack," "insult," or "put down," small families so much as point out the positives of large ones. The tone may have been a bit defensive on some people's part because the tone of the comment that they are responding to is accusatory and, frankly, rude. I imagine if someone refered to my children using a word that is normally applied to dogs I'd be defensive too. My parents only had two children (considering their messy divorce, that is actually a good thing, though they had intended to have more, and I think my father did an excellent job of being a parent to my younger brother and I, still providing us with a "large" family.) Parents who only have one, two or three children are not all selfish, I don't think anyone meant to imply that either. There are parents who are selfish people who seem to view children as a status symbol, extension of themselves and possesions to augment their value as individuals. So far I haven't met any parents of large families who fit that definition, but I'm willing to bet they exisit. Obviously anytime we get into people's personal choices in life (especially parenting and children) it is easy to get defensive. Most of the people posting here are from bigger families, but not all are. Further I believe that all of the regulars here are kind and loving people who want to support and encourage each other (under the mentorship of Barbara, a mega mom I have personally witnessed and admire greatly) and lift up the joys of being a parent (or working with children in my case.)
I beleive their intention was to respond to the question "Are large families disadvantaged?" I think it's fair to say that based on what has been presented here, the answer is "NO!"
Posted by: Sandy | August 31, 2006 9:35 AM
If you have a small family, you get affirmation and support from the general population, since you are doing what most everyone else is. For those of us with larger families, support and encouragement is much harder to come by, so I for one am very happy and grateful to find it where ever and whenever I can.
Just for the record, I do not naturally have the patience for many children. I am LEARNING it as I go. I am an introvert, who homeschools and cares for 6 lively children ages 12 to 8 months. Talk about the Lord getting me out of my comfort zone and working out the rough spots! This has been a huge part of my sanctification process.
Now off to plan for the school year.
Posted by: Maggie | August 31, 2006 12:20 PM
I have three children of my own, all under 2 years old, and though I don't consider us to be a large family, we run into a lot of criticism. However, I have to agree with you and love isn't subject to the laws of mathematics that most fear with the exception of one operation. My favorite quote, though I have forgotten where it came from, is: "Love never divides. It multiplies!"
Posted by: Sandie | August 31, 2006 11:18 PM
Thanks to everyone for the comments! It's true - I do know Sandy - with a y - the teacher who commented, though I haven't seen her for at least 14 years. Sandy and my daughter Jasmine were friends in high school - that many years ago. so Sandy was at our house and saw our family in action.
Thanks, Sandy for getting in touch this way - your perspective is very helpful because it's based on unbiased experience! Love and blessings to you! Barbara - Mrs. C - Mama C
Posted by: barbara | September 1, 2006 8:27 AM
Thank you Barbara once again for a great post! We don't have a large family (yet). Number 3 is on the way but not until next year.
I like what Maggie said, and I agree with her--I have found the difficulties of raising children to play a huge part in sanctifying me and refining my character. I am not the same person I was 5 years ago, praise God! And if 2 kiddos improves me so much, well then, bring on a bunch more. ;)
As a mom with a "small" family, I wasn't in any way offended by the post. Maybe because small or large isn't my choice, but God's. So I can agree with you completely and still be content with the number I've been given for now.
Thanks for standing up for big families!
Posted by: Margaret | September 2, 2006 7:07 PM
I have seven children. My eldest daughter is going to be leaving for school in Israel in just a few short weeks. She is a beautiful, idependent young woman with her future at her feet.
My eldest son is a landscaper who works long hours and saves nearly every penny he earns. He is thoughtful, polite and engaging.
My second son is hardworking. He helps his dad every weekend learning the in and out of auto mechanics. He would like to defend our country even if that means going to Iraq. He is an inspiration.
My third son is as different from the others as can be. He would like to design computer games. He is working on one now that teaches the art of fencing.
My second daughter is just discovering the joy of being a girl. She loves to go shopping and play with her friends.
My fourth son learned to read this year. He is so enthusiastic in his studies.
My fifth son is a barrel of fun. He is into everything. He is super independent and a continuing joy for all of us.
My point is, who would you get rid of. I can't imagine life without every one of these people in it. Whether one or one hundred my heart is open to them all. They are more joy than work and proud does not describe this happy momma.
Posted by: Jean | September 17, 2006 9:01 PM
My husband and I have five children of our own, three of which we homeschool. We had our first three very close together, waited 11 years, and decided to have more. Even when we only had three, people were critical. Now that we have five, people think we are just downright crazy. We took a family vacation a few weeks ago and ran into a woman in her early fifties on a bus who had one daughter. In realizing that we had five children, ages 16 years to 10 months, she commented as to how wonderful she thought it was and wished she would have had more children herself. How refreshing it was to hear this from someone instead of hearing, "Are you crazy--I couldn't stand to have that many children." Or, "Why would you want to start over after 11 years when your children are all old enough for you to start having more freedom to do what YOU want to do." (FYI...our older children were 11, 13, and 14 when the fourth one was born.) The latter comment came from our own parents. It was our choice to have more children, and though it is not always easy, we are more and more blessed by them everyday because we do not see them as a burden, but as a blessing from God. It is just nice to know that there are those who actually appreciate large families and don't think that we are all insane. Thanks to you, Barbara, and to all of you who wrote in to encourage those of us who have large families.
Posted by: Holly | October 4, 2006 6:34 PM
I'm the oldest of 12 kids (I am 24) and I love every minute of it! My mom and sisters (20, 18) are my best friends, I would rather hang with them than anyone else. All my life my parents talked about the benefits of a big family to the point that us kids feel a small amount of pity for the kids that don't have lots of siblings! My parents have always had such a great attitude that we never had any idea that it could be anything but awesome to be part of a big family. My littlest sister is 2 and then we are each two years apart on up to 24. I love the fact that one minute I can discuss and debate opinions on current events or books with the older kids and then the next minute I can be dancing around the living room singing Knees Up Mother Brown at the top of my voice with my little sisters. Having little kids around keeps me from taking myself too seriously and it injects such a vibrant joy into every aspect of life. I hope to have a large family of my own biologically as well as through adoption and foster care. I have had such a wonderful childhood that I want to give that gift to as many kids as I can. Big families rock!
Posted by: Autumn | October 15, 2006 5:57 PM
Hello
I have 4 children ranging in age from 28 to 12 years old. I love them all. I have had people blink twice when I tell when asked how many children I have. I would have liked to have had more if health would have permitted. I don't feel we are a large family but I guess by today's standard we just mmight be.
China, with it's one child only policy, is preventing people from enjoying a normal happy family life in the name of money and gov't assistance. They need to get out of people's bedrooms.
My children are all well educated, University and College for the older 3 and the same will go for the last one.
I was one of three children and had known families growing up with either one child to 8 and 13 children. The ones with the larger numbers were the most compassionate, loving, caring of all. The lonely onlies for what ever reason were the ones who were lonely, selfish or gave all of themselves to be with groups to offset their loneliness.
When I see these large families on TV. I think of how blessed they are. Warm loving families all loving and caring for one another. Well behaved, articulate and successful.
We should have more people go back to the values that seem to have been lost along life's highway in the name of success. What is success? How do we measure success?
Success for me id to be the mother of the children I have and the love that they show me everyday of their lives. Looking forward to grandchildren, large family gatherings at Christmas.
Posted by: Cora | January 14, 2009 12:35 PM
God should be the one to decide the number of your children. If he gives you 1 or if he gives you 12, then you know you were meant to have that number. You can handle ANYTHING when you have God. So just because you think you are not able does not mean that you truly are not able. Trust in the lord to give you as many as he sees fit.
Posted by: Claire | February 10, 2009 2:12 PM
I am the third of ten children, and it is times like these that I simply cannot comprehend the ignorance of some people. To assume that children from large families are not loved as much or educated as effectively as those who have less siblings is ridiculous!
There has never been a moment in my life that I have doubted the unconditional love that my parents have for me and my siblings. My mother dedicated ten years to home schooling us, because we did not live in an area with a good school district. My parents saved every penny they had and built a new home from scratch so that they could raise us in a safer neighborhood. When we moved to an area with a better school district and began attending public school my mother opened a licensed home daycare. She did this so that she could help my father provide for us financially while remaining a stay at home mom for my siblings who were not yet in school. My father has worked endless hours on many occasions to ensure we have a stable income. More than that, he has always been there to goof off with us or give a shoulder to cry on when needed and he has faithfully stuck by my mothers side for over 28 years. I was diagnosed with a rare and life threatening medical condition as a toddler. Shortly after this diagnosis my mother established and managed a non profit organization for me and other individuals battling this condition in an effort to support me. She has been a true hero in my eyes and has always encouraged me to follow my dreams despite the challenges I face.
Do these sound like unloving actions to you??? I didn't think so. The amount of love a child is given is not determined by the number of siblings they have. I have been working in a child care center for the past two years. To be honest I cannot tell you how many children I see come through that are raised by nannies or spend 50+ hours a week at daycare. Many of these children are an only child or have one sibling. Now I hate to make assumptions, but since JPE felt the need to judge I suppose I have the same right. If having a small family means having the luxury of paying others to raise your children then count me out!! I would rather see a million large families who have loving parents and several siblings to spread that love, then one small family where parents are too wrapped up in their own lives to care about the biggest blessings in their lives: their kids!
As far as education is concerned I have complete faith that my siblings and I are intelligent enough to survive in the 'great big world.' My oldest sister graduated high school with all A's. She then went onto graduate college with a bachelor's in nursing, and for the past four years she has been dedicating her life to saving the lives of others. My brother will be graduating from a very credible university this spring with a degree in biomedical engineering. My younger brother will be graduating high school this year with near straight A's, and he then will be studying dental at an amazing university. Each time report cards are sent home several of my younger siblings receive notes stating how wonderful their effort in class is, how kind and polite they are, and so on. I am currently in college pursuing a degree in education with the hopes of passing on some of the knowledge that I have gained. Clearly we have not been at any sort of academic disadvantage due to the fact that we have more siblings than the norm.
My personal belief on family size and having children: if you are providing for your children financially while loving them to your best ability, then it is no ones business how many children you have. I do not go around telling couples with only one child or no children at all that they should have more, so why should they have any say in my reproduction, my parents reproduction, or that of anyone else who wants to have a large family?
Posted by: Maria | March 9, 2012 1:22 AM
It's not the size of the family that matters, it's whether or not God's blessing is on the kids. If His blessing is there, everything will be great for the kids, no matter how many siblings they have or don't have. Without His blessing, the lack of siblings and being able to hog all the parents' resources won't help them.
Posted by: Sweet Marmot | March 9, 2012 2:39 PM
I love reading about large families and the benefits they bring.
My husband & I only have 3 living children, but that is not by our choice. Infertility is a heartwrenching experience when your dream has been to have a large family. (I wanted 12 at least and a large plot of land with housing to minister to many more)
I have had a few ladies in my infertility support group wonder if the federal government would mandate coverage for infertility diagnosis and treatment since the push for birth control coverage. I believe that with the current push for two children or less, preferably less, the government would not mandate anything which would increase the population.
That does not stop me of dreaming of more children. My children are all blessings even though their ages are much more spread apart than I had hoped. (almost 12, 7, and almost 3)
It is difficult to teach them to be kind and respectful toward others, but the training has definitely shown its value with our oldest.
I have a deep sympathy for those who long for children but are unable to conceive. Bitterness can be a natural outcome of that unmet longing, but it doesn't have to be. I know several women who are content in their God-given role as a family of two. (husband & wife)
I guess my point is, families come in all shapes and sizes. There are those of us who long for something else and there are others who have learned to be content regardless of their circumstances. Are kids from big families disadvantaged? I say it depends on the family. It sounds like there are some great ones around here!
Posted by: j dan | March 9, 2012 5:44 PM
As a mother of four, aged 15 to 29, my husband and I have seen a lot of different responses to the fact that we had "so many children." (Even though that number is far less than many large families.) I faced fertility issues, and at a young age I was told that I probably would not be able to conceive. God blessed us with four wonderful children, who will in turn, bless those they come in contact with during their lives. Each one is generous, intelligent and loving, and each has a strong personal faith. Through the years we got a lot of strange responses when people found out we had four children, especially with their births being so far apart. We know that it was God's perfect will for our family. We have been blessed with two grandchildren, and hopefully in the future our family will continue to grow. We have never regretted having a large family, and as a matter of fact, I have never met parents who would say they wish they had had less children. God is so good, and only gives us good gifts in His perfect love. It is our priviledge to offer Him thanks in everything.
Posted by: Linda | March 11, 2012 6:19 PM
