September 2, 2006 12:43 PM
What to do when husband and wife are not agreed on more children?
This lovely lady would like your prayers and advice:
It's all great and lovely when both dh and dw are moved by God to be on the same page as far as letting Him plan their family goes...but what about when dw wants more children and dh says, "NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"??? I was lucky to get my four out of him, but it really wasn't God that got him there, it was me and my tantrums. (BTW, that is NOT how to get children...) Dh has a dozen reasons for the "why not", but basically it boils down to selfishness.
Why, oh why does God bring one person to this conviction and not their spouse? I would almost rather not have known about this concept...the pain at times in unbearable. And I now I am 44 and dh is almost 50...it won't be much longer until I CAN"T have anymore children. I am blessed with fertility; it takes my about 3 months to become pregnant when we stop birth control. (UGH, I can barely stand to type those words.) I feel like what a waste...I wonder who we are "missing"....it has caused great strife between dh and I...
Do you have any thoughts about this????
Posted in Big families, Marriage, Mothering, Pro-Life Issues | Permalink
Comments
I'd be interested in sending an e-mail to this lady, privately. Could you get my e-mail address to her, please?
Posted by: Beverly Lloyd | September 2, 2006 1:37 PM
All I can offer is my prayer, and your own prayer. Have as many people as you know pray on it.
But ultimately, we wives are called to submit to our husbands. Granted, they are called to love us as Christ loved the church, but sometimes they fail. Just because our husband fails to love us in the way he should does not mean that we are justified in not submitting to him. (I am not, OF COURSE, talking about physical, mental or emotional abuse here. Then we need to get out and get help.) But if he decides to go to a different church than we want, or decides our family is complete, then we are not justified in fighting about it over and over. My thought is, we pray. We ask God for His help. We maybe present our case to our husband in a loving way, but at the end of the day, submitting sometimes is a hard choice done out of love for Jesus and his submission for us.
That's my take on things, anyway. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers!! I hope God softens your husband's heart, and soon....
Posted by: colicmommy | September 2, 2006 1:58 PM
My first thoughts when I read this....is where is this woman's love and submission and respect for her husband?
She tantrumed him into having four children. That's not a respectful way to approach things. It's not a loving submissive way to listen and respect his headship of the family. What I hear is >>> I WANT MY OWN WAY!!! And HE"S SELFISH and WON"T DO WHAT I WANT.
I know it's only a few lines in a letter, but I really struggle with the fact that many women say.. "but I know this is what God wants for me so why does my husband not listen to what I'm saying?" It ends up sounding like, me me me.
God's primary object for us is that we bring glory to him. He has set out a fine model for us to follow. Men show God's relationship with church, women are to show the church's relationship to God. That's biblical...read corinthians, ephesians and so forth.
Your husband has made it clear that he doesn't want any more children. BECAUSE he loves you, he has graciously given you four lovely children. And now he says... this family is complete. Please honour him for the love he has shown you. Respect him, raise those children to love and honour God and you're doing what you need to do.
As another reader stated....you can always pray about it. But you still need to respect him for his decisions.
Posted by: ladysown | September 2, 2006 4:02 PM
Oh, how my heart began to race as I read this post. I was in her shoes. I "convinced" my husband to have a vasectomy after our only child was eighteen months old and then when she was four God began to soften my heart and I desired more children. You can only imagine how thrilled he was at the idea of a reversal.(NOT!)I read Full Quiver and my desire grew. When he didn't respond to "my teaching" I began to get very angry and distant from my dear husband. My heart ached at what I was doing to our marriage. It was as if God was showing me that if He wanted us to have more HE would make sure that it happend. It was my job to trust Him alone and not MY words of "TRUTH".When I really backed off and my husband could see that I loved him and trusted his guidance for our family he came to me and let me know that he did want to have more children. This was four years after I first began to pray...Thee years after dh's TWO reversals we still have one beautiful, healthy, smart lively eleven year old daughter.
Though God had not seen fit that we would have more sweet babies, I'm thankful for the sometimes quite painful journey.
I pray that you delight your self in the Lord. Trust Him to guide your husband and humble yourself before it's too late.
In Christ,
One Who's Been There (I feel you pain)
Posted by: Michele Hollar | September 2, 2006 7:56 PM
I am so glad you posted this b/c I've been wondering the same thing. Before getting married my husband and I had agreed on just two children but since having my second child almost a year ago I've been wanting more. I think God has used this blog and other people to open my heart on this subject. My husband was so firm about his decision that he went and got a vasectomy though I asked him not to. But I think all I can do now is pray and submit. God can do the impossible and He knows better than I what is best for our family.
Posted by: Laurie | September 2, 2006 8:23 PM
If you believe that your use of birth control is immoral, then don't use it. It is your husband who feels differently, so it is him who should shoulder the burden of preventing pregnancies. He has to buy the condoms, or get the vascectomy, or abstain, or whatever.
Being married doesn't mean you compromise your beliefs.
I do believe wives are to submit to their husbands AFTER they submit to God. So if God tells me something is wrong, then I have to listen to that first with regards to my own behavior. That means that if my dh asks me not to go to church then I still go, but I don't nag or force him to go. I just politely explain that my conscience is telling me what I must do, but I respect that he doesn't have the same belief.
I will be praying for you! **HUGS***
Posted by: paigeu | September 2, 2006 10:27 PM
First, I think that if you are using any form of birth control that is an "abortifacient" you can scripturally and biblically refuse to use it. We are to submit to our husbands, but not when it comes to violating the laws of God. Using anything that is an abortifacient is potentially causing a fertilized egg to abort which would be causing the death of an unborn baby. You can scripturally and prayerfully and respectfully appeal to your husband about this and tell him that you cannot us any BC that might abort a fertilized egg.
I think other forms of BC would fall into the category of "permissible" will of God....God has not directly spoken against it, but are they in the perfect will of God? Like cigarettes. God never directly, specifically spoke in the bible about cigarettes, but we could all think of a few scriptures that indirectly suggest they are not permissible ie..."The body is a temple..." God speaks rather directly about "withdrawal". He speaks quite directly about abstainance as well. But no direct references to "barrier" or sp*rmicidal methods that I know of. This gets down to the issues of trust. In 13 years of being on this "trust" journey I have seen most peoples "trust" level such that they want to see God provide "up front" before trusting Him for more children. I knew a couple that had 4 children and the DH said, "If God wanted them to have more children then he wanted the money 'up front'". That's about the level of trust and faith of many people in our society, but that's not how God operates. He wants to see our faith up front! We take the step of faith and trust Him to provide.
As far as this dear lady is concerned. I think she can refuse to use any abortafacients, and after that she can take the step of faith in believing and trusting God will open her husband's heart and mind....obeying her husband's wishes and praying ernestly for his eyes to be opened to this issue. If he never changes his mind he will stand before God and give an account for failing to trust in this area. She will stand before God and give an account of her obedience to her husband. God sees her heart and I believe that strong desire for more children is God given. It is heartbreaking when a husband doesn't have the same desire. I think the scripture about an "unbelieving" husband might apply here as well. Her husband is failing to believe God for provision for more children. She can win him over by her "chaste" and humble behavior. Quietly respectfully honoring her husband while prayerfully pleading to the Lord as Hannah did may bring about the change in her husband's mind and heart.
I pray as well that this man's heart be changed.
Posted by: Tara | September 3, 2006 3:01 AM
It's been my experience that nagging and tantrums will never change a husband's heart. My beloved has occasionally thought he had all the children he could financially afford. That is a selfishness, though, a wanting of other things that the money used to support a child could buy. When the time comes that I am ready for another child, when my heart yearns for a new soft baby to hold, all I can do is tell him how I feel. Sometimes I only have to wait a couple of months for his heart to change, and once I waited for more than a year. But he knew how I felt all along and so did our God.
If your husband is a man you love and trust and admire in other matters, I'd suggest just making your feelings known and letting God do the rest. Don't grumble and gripe, for that hardens a man toward his wife. And most importantly, if nothing should ever change, be as content as possible with the family you've been given.
Posted by: Jennie C. | September 3, 2006 9:06 AM
Well, I agree with Tara, most women's birth control works, at least partially, by causing a fertilized egg to be unable to implant - thus starving it of the nourishment it needs to survive. Also, they have many dangerous side effects, including infertility, stroke, heart attack, etc. Women should not put dangerous abortifacient things in their body because someone else wants them too. And I think if most men understood the risks to their wives they wouldn't even ask them to do it!
Most men's form of birth control God also explicitly forbids, it used to be called the sin of Onanism (after Onan in Genesis). It was only the last 100 years or so that a 'new' interpretation of that passage was spread around, that the sin was not the wasting of seed but was of a 'selfish heart' towards Onan's new wife.
Also, wives SHOULD submit to their husbands; that is sub + mission; sub = under; so wives need to put themselves under the mission of their husbands. Their husbands mission being to serve God and love their wives as Christ loved the Church. It has nothing to do with refusing God's sovereignity over your body or refusing to let God bless you as He sees fit.
God made me, specifically, fertile, as one of His gifts. It is part of His design for me. If my husband accepts, and embraces me, his woman, he has to take ALL of me, including my fertility.
I do not mean to sound harsh, I just have very strong feelings on the matter. My advice would be to pray. Submit yourself to God's will, and it will work out. YOU cannot force change on your husband's heart - that's the job of the Holy Spirit.
Posted by: Lisa S. | September 3, 2006 11:54 AM
On a positive note, pour all that mothering energy into the four you have. Then:
Ask the Lord to send you other children who need you, too.
Starting with nieces, nephews, and neighbors, the children in Sunday School. . .your children's friends. . .you could work in the church nursery, provide free child care for those in need. . .once you start to think about it, the possibilities are endless. Formally or informally, start putting that mommy energy into the children that need it!
Posted by: Marie | September 3, 2006 12:26 PM
I knew I could count on everyone here for lots of wisdom.
Marie, ythat is such a positive suggestion. If I'd been struggling with this issue, I would seize this opportunity and run with it.
Posted by: barbara | September 3, 2006 12:51 PM
I forgot to mention in my last post that there is a third option you can look into. You can learn Natural Family Planning through a class in your area and start charting your cycles. There is about a 2-3 cycle learning curve for this, but after that it is pretty reliable. If your dh doesn't trust it he still has the option of using a back-up barrier method for himself, but otherwise each cycle would require an average of 10days of abstinance to avoid conception. Maybe it would help open your husbands heart.
I am pregnant with my 4th child in 5 years. My dh never thought birth control was bad but I told him that I believed it was a sin and I wouldn't use it and we learned NFP. I am sure if either one of us was using birth control we would have less kids than we do, but it just so happens that my dh (nor I) are very good at abstaining for that 10 days.
I don't know if you bring in any income, but if you could find something that you could do from home that would help also. I figured out that it(usually) takes a couple of thousand dollars to raise a young child for a year, and up to 5000 or more for a teenager (this is including health insurance and utility increases). I figured out that if I could bring in just an extra couple hundred dollars a month that it would be enough for another child and my husband wouldn't have to make any huge financial sacrifices.
Posted by: paigeu | September 3, 2006 1:07 PM
I am with Marie as well. My heart yearns for more children; however, in my case, it's not my husband stopping me, but my own body. I wish we could be open to more children, but another pregnancy might kill me or could drastically reduce both my quality of life and/or length of life. That's not a chance we're willing to take. And so, while it's hard to not be able to give birth or nurse another baby, I believe that I must not ignore the three souls in the rooms down the hall. I could dwell on my sadness, or I can channel my energy into the children I do have, giving them the best that I can, since I don't have to spread it around as much.
I also pray that God gives me spiritual children. I firmly believe that not all children are biological. Or even formally adopted. I've known childless couples who, while so hoping for children of their own, have cultivated relationships with people around them who needed a family. Eventually, my children will have friends, some who will quite likely come from broken, lonely homes and will need a "mom" and a "dad" to show them the love they aren't getting. That's what my parents did, even after having four children.
Judging from the letter-writer's comments, this has been an ongoing issue. She thinks her husband is selfish, but she may not know what his real reasons are. I've had to learn to trust my husband. He wasn't wild about having a third child, but could never really explain to me why. And honestly, the pregnancy was tough and I have had numerous health scares (recently I almost died) since the baby was born. How connected these problems are to the pregnancy, I don't know, and I certainly wouldn't trade the baby for better health. But it's been enough that when my husband said no more, I submitted (he was then backed up by the doctors). God leads through our husbands, even when we don't understand or it seems to contradict what we believe God's direction is. Some things are more important than having as many children as possible. "To obey is better than sacrifice." Having an open womb can bring much glory to God. But not as much as a marriage that is a true picture of Godly love and submission to each other, a marriage that is in harmony, a marriage that "walks the walk" in faith and love, training the children, however many there are, to worship and love God.
This got long, but I guess the bottom line to me is that this woman's marriage needs to be restored and holiness sought before there are more children. It doesn't bring glory to God to bring children into a marriage filled with strife and resentment and bitterness. I suspect there is more going on than just her wanting more children. Things are always more complicated than they appear.
Posted by: Lucy | September 3, 2006 3:26 PM
Regarding faith and trust...Tara's comment about "the money up front" was excellent and very insightful! That helped me see and understand some of the lack of faith in my life and in the lives of others around me. We do very often want to see the money/provision first, THEN we'll obey God...but He doesn't usually work that way. There's no faith involved in that. Obeying, and trusting that He will provide when we obey, is faith. Thanks for that encouragement, Tara!
Posted by: miller_schloss | September 3, 2006 4:06 PM
My husband and I have also always had different ideas about how many children we'd like to have, and I've come to trust God to give us the ones He has for us. We have the two he wanted, and I'd like more, but we have both grown to trust God for what he has for us, and that is beautiful. I am certain that if I'd ever demanded or forced the issue, our loving, playful relationship would have been damaged. There are many horror stories of women who lost their husbands over forcing them or nagging them to have more children. Read this lovely book Created To Be His Help Meet. Even if you don't agree with everything, it will show you how to treat your husband.
I say this with sisterly love: if you are tantruming for *any* reason, you are not going to make your husband want more children. It is hard enough to deal with a tantruming adult. How lovely to have a heart for children. Continue to ask God to bring His will into your lives. Gently ask your husband to seek God for this question and let him know you trust him to know God's will. What a huge responsibility. If you give your husband the leadership and respect he might crave, you never know what good things will happen. :)
Posted by: Angela | September 3, 2006 9:58 PM
I think Lucy made some very important points. At 50, with four children to raise, the ante goes up as far as our health and ability to raise our children. I think this weighs more on the men, who are charged with the many responsiblities of financially and emotionally supporting the family. Men don't tend to talk about their concerns as much as we ladies do, but when a husband starts to feel the effects of age creeping upon him, he starts to wonder how he's going to see all these little guys to adulthood.
I know we are meant to rely on God and have Faith that He will provide. I know many children do fine even in the event of the illness or loss of a parent. I agree that we need to be able to share our concerns with the partners that God has given us. I do think, however, that we need to try to understand why they see things the way they do and if we feel they are truely wrong, take it to prayer and LISTEN to Our Lord.
I have often felt that our family is not complete and, as we had not been successful at having another child of our own, I was looking into adoption. I would talk to my husband, but he never really seemed to share my feelings. One day I was praying and I put this situation before The Lord. The answer I got was to ask my husband to pray about it, and to accept the answer he was given. I told my husband, who has a very strong Faith, and, for whatever reason, I now know we are not being called to adopt. There is great peace in knowing that you are doing God's will. The number of children you have does not define the kind of parent you are. Some may end up with a quiver full, but the "Pearl of Great Price", The Kingdom of Heaven, is the ultimate goal. Your place in God's Plan is not going to be the same as any other. Your marriage is the foundation of your part in His Plan. Embrace your marriage first and Christ, as a loving partner with you and your husband, will bless your whole family.
Posted by: Jennifer | September 3, 2006 10:50 PM
This topic is fresh on my mind and heart because God has been dealing with me regarding submission to my hubby as well. We have disagreements about parenting and I KNOW I'm right- I just feel it in my bones! I have lots of good and godly reasons for how I think things should be done. But I have come to the conclusion that I must give up my will... not just for the sake of peace and unity- although those are very desirable- but because God says I must and He knows what's best. He reminded me that "love does not seek its own" ( 1 Cor. 13:5) and to do NOTHING through conceit (which in my case is thinking I know how to parent better than my hubby) "but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself." (Phil. 2:4) That passage explains how Christ demonstrated this- "He humbled himself and became obedient..." (Phil. 2:8).
So I encourage you to do what I too need to do - stop trying to have your own way. No one can say with certainty that it's God's will for you to have more children. But God has made it quite clear that it IS His will that we submit to our husbands. And we will only have opportunity to do so when we are in disagreement with them. So dear sister, let us thank God for the opportunity to grow in Christ-likeness, trust Him to work as He sees fit and humbly submit.
Posted by: gendifrank | September 6, 2006 1:42 AM
I don't know if people still check this, but I am there too. I have been married 2 years and am so ready for kids. My husband wants children (he is one of 10!) but he is starting med school in the fall and wants to get through before we have kids so he can be around more for them. I will also be the breadwinner while he's in school. I understand his motives, but I will be 30 by then and I worry about the health effects of starting that late- plus I want several kids.
People say that it is usually selfish to not want more kids, but in our case it may be opposite. I think my husband's motives are pure (doesn't mean it's the best decision though) and mine may just be that I am lonely and think children will fulfill my life. I see this in large families sometimes. When the baby gets to be 2 or so, they start aching for another. This could be a healthy God-given desire, but I have seen some them neglect their older children because of it, and only focus on the youngest (to the great detriment of the last born). It is kind of like a greed thing with some people. I don't want it to get like that with me. God is teaching me to be satisfied with what I have and enjoy the time I have left alone with my husband. But I still ache everyday. I run a child care in my home to keep me sane. :) It is hard, but be satisfied with what you have.
on another note, I realized after 1.5 years of marriage that my husband listens to others better than to me. This used to exasperate me, but I now use it as a strategy. I look for opportunites for us to be around wiser men and couples- not just so they'll tell him what I want them to, but for him to gain wisdom (and a lot of times it is exactly what I have been telling him! and he listens to them!)
Posted by: Dee | January 28, 2007 10:48 PM
Wow, I'm on the opposite side of this situation. I am the husband and we have a 7 year old. I've asked my wife for another child for a couple of years off and on and she says she's not ready. We are going through our fair share of issues as far as affection goes as well (all the different kinds of affection) so maybe it's not the best time right now, but I would love to have a second and possibly final child before we are too old and the risks increase. I've proposed that we go to church and we did ONCE. She didn't like the church and said she'd like to go to another, but we have yet to go (technically we've only skipped a week, so maybe she'll come around). All I can do is pray that the LORD helps us decide what is right for us and I need to stop nagging about affection and another child. I know that won't help things.
Posted by: DB | October 3, 2007 10:13 AM
