May 16, 2007 9:08 PM
Jonathan of Equality Loudoun asks "What does it mean to be a Christian?" and I try to answer
Jonathan wrote this as a comment on Lisa Miller/ Janet Jenkins custody battle - can a child have two mothers? and my answer became so involved that I'm moving the whole exchange up here for anyone with the dogged determination it will probably take to read it through :)
Hi Barbara,Thanks for keeping us up to date. I'm at work and can't read the entire piece, but will when I have free time. A comment and questions. If you understand the comment, you may avoid future criticism from the GLBT community. The statement:
"I've seen the lifestyle up close and personal."is too sweeping. The lifestyle you experienced doesn't represent the varieties of lifestyles that GLBT people experience. Lifestyle correlates more closely with location, demographics and geography than with sexual orientation. I have a blog in the state of interminable final editing which I'll publish soon that deals with "conservative assimilationalists". Their lifestyle assimilates with the surrounding community. Since you work with GLBT people you've probably met many who assimilate. For the sake of staying on good terms, please acknowledge their lifestyle too. They certainly don't live the SF Castro district lifestyle in suburban Loudoun?
An now for the questions. You said:"Lisa returned to Virginia and became a Christian."What does it mean to be a Christian?
I've begun a spiritual journey and would like very much to "become a Christian". I'm starting with this, and excuse me if I misquote:
"And this is the testimony; God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his son. Whoever has the son, has life. Whoever does not have the son of God, does not have life."So what does it mean to "have" the son?
And finally, can one be GLBT and Christian?
Hi Jonathan -
I'm always amazed that you keep up with my blog - although I must admit I wonder if you're waiting to catch me saying something you don't approve of :) I always wonder why the left monitors the right and feels compelled to chime in. It would never occur to me to question what you say at Equality Loudoun, for instance - and I don't even have the time to read the blogs of my best friends, let alone those in different political camps.
In fact, that's something I've noticed in my acquaintance with you and David: that you seem interested only in what I have to say on issues like this. Have you noticed that I am a multi-dimensional person? Are you aware that I have nearly 2000 entries here and probably only 2-3% have to do with this area you find so compelling?
I think that's what I find so odd about the lifestyle of political gays. Yes, there are many gay people out there who live assimilated lives - there always have been. My husband, for instance has two "aunts" in their seventies who've lived together since college. But they live pretty much like other people in a house in suburbia. working and doing their thing without making their sexuality the centerpiece of their existence. They are different than the gay men I lived with in the Castro District. And they are also different than you in that regard.
I've lived in Loudoun County for almost five years. As a person who picks up any periodical and heads straight for the letters to the editor (have you ever noticed that self-publishing companies always advertise on those pages in magazines? Because I think every writer starts out writing letters to the editor. I know I did.) I was familiar with Jonathan and David Weintraub long before you ever knew my name.
Our first run-in was when I wrote a simple – and I thought rather poetic and well-researched – piece on the starling invasion. For some reason you decided I must be talking about gay people. Perhaps you made that assumption because you could infer from my column that I was a Christian. Perhaps it's because gay activists - at least as far as I've observed - tend to be somewhat one-dimensional. Or as a friend of mine says, "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
I knew where you were coming from and wanted to assure you that I was not your enemy. So I picked up the phone and called you. We had a REAL conversation. Not name-calling or disrespectful, but – even though we disagree in major ways – a real and human conversation.
That’s the way it should be.
As I’ve pointed out today in my piece on Jerry Falwell, I feel the gay community has definitely been much more guilty of hatred and vilifying their “enemies” than the Christian community. I never heard Jerry Falwell utter a hateful word, but I have heard gay activists vilify him – even within hours of his death. I have been the victim of this hate speech myself – and find it ironic that the very group who’s always claiming victim status finds it so easy to attack others, a la Animal Farm. My own experience is that being a victim has made my heart more tender and increased my willingness to extend the benefit of a doubt.
Which leads me to your comment and questions. I’m just wondering, Jonathan, what your motivation is when you suddenly appear at my blog to subject me to a mini-inquisition. Please don’t read those words harshly. My voice is not harsh at all, just curious. I’ve offered to meet you for coffee and try to build some kind of bridge of understanding. I’ve called you when I was puzzled by your defensive response to an innocuous 500-word general interest column I wrote for our local paper.
I do not stalk your blog or question your dearly-held beliefs.
Please forgive me if I seem somewhat skeptical of the sincerity of your comment and your questions.
I think I addressed your comment about what you called my sweeping generalization. I always smile when I hear that criticism because people who levy it are very prone to make sweeping generalizations of their own – it’s just part of human communication, but somewhere along the line it became a – well, a sweepingly generalized criticism that really doesn’t say much of anything.
However, I hope that by clarifying that to me it’s not a question of Castro District vs. Loudoun County gays, but a question of the one-dimensional focus of some gays – whether it is an obsessive focus on sex or on political perspective – to the exclusion of other more healthy and productive pursuits that promote mainstream assimilation. When your first identity is your homosexuality rather than the ways in which you make a contribution to the world – whether it’s through obsessive promiscuous behavior or through hammering away at nails that aren’t really there – it creates a barrier between you and others. In a way it’s very self-defeating because you say you want acceptance and yet your identity is all about what sets you apart. When we talked on the phone I mentioned that it’s not prejudice that causes complaints about the gay presence at the Fourth of July parade as a distinct group but rather the inappropriate distraction on a day that is all about our common heritage through your emphasis on your pride in being gay. We would feel uncomfortable if other groups did the same thing on that day. It’s just awkward and inappropriate.
I’m just musing here. I’m all about self-recognition and overcoming barriers to communication. I appreciate that most of the time you have treated me more carefully than you might have had I not picked up the phone and called you when you first accused me of something of which I was not guilty.
You asked: What does it mean to be a Christian?
To me becoming a Christian occurred when I came to believe that God loved me and had a plan for my life. That my efforts to know God – whom I had been actively seeking for seven years – were not working because I was separated from Him by sin (yes, that awful word). That Jesus was the only way to bridge that gap. And that I needed to make a decision whether I would accept God’s provision of his Son as the only way to have a personal relationship with him.
Jonathan, I know this may sound crazy to you – and it would have to me if I hadn’t been at the end of my rope having things my way. Yes, everything about my life was successful at that point. It had been seven years since I hit bottom and my husband and I were healthy, wealthy and – as we wanted to think – fairly wise.
Still we were at the end of our rope.
We had little peace in our own relationship. It’s difficult to get along when two people think they’re the center of the universe. Tripp and I had a lot of spiritual discipline. We meditated daily and did all the right things. And Jesus was no stranger – we had a picture of him on our meditation altar along with all the gurus in our guru line.
But I never understood his divinity.
So it was a leap of faith when I acknowledged my own inability to reach God through my own efforts, accepted that God had already provided a way, and surrendered my life to Christ.
This did not occur in a church and with no spiritual foundation, I had no context for understanding what had happened to me. Nor did my husband Tripp who made the same surrender at the same time. We lived in a very anti-Christian place – Marin County, where only 4% of people go to church – and had no Christian friends. It took us nearly three weeks of reading the gospels to understand what had happened to us.
Having spent some time with Lisa, I can see that she has had this experience as well. Only someone who’s found that kind of faith could have the peaceful countenance and “blessed assurance” (that’s a really sweet hymn by Fanny Crosby, a blind woman whose music is filled with visual images) – not that she will prevail in her battle for Isabella, but that no matter what happens God will be there for both of them.
What does it mean to be a Christian? I can see why you wonder. Here in northern Virginia we are surrounded by Christians. In fact, that’s why I persuaded Tripp after we became Christians that it would be nice to live in a place where Christians were not the minority. But it didn’t take long before we saw that living in a place where Christians are the majority meant living among people whose faith was flabby and weak and who didn’t look different at all.
To me, being a Christian means that each day I try to think less of myself and more of others. That I am open to learning where I have been wrong and willing to change. That I look for ways to serve and help others. And specifically for me, because that is my calling, that I help make the world a better place for children.
I explained in my entry that I am deeply committed to the traditional family because I am convinced that that template – a father and mother raising children together – is the one that works the best to produce healthy children. Let me assure you that I am not under the illusion that it is a foolproof formula. Unfortunately, humans can be mean, ugly, hurtful, and destructive – that is what Christians mean when they talk of sin. But coming from two family lines filled with divorce, alcoholism, abuse and homosexuality, Tripp and I felt compelled when we became Christians to do all we could to reach our potential in terms of what God might want to do with our lives. Personally, I see being a Christian as a huge responsibility and I try to live my life in obedience to God’s will. That means I try to be sensitive to what He would like me to do.
Maybe it sounds hokey, but tonight after feeding my family and putting my kids to bed, I thought perhaps He would like me to answer your questions. When I sat down I had no idea where this would lead. But here we are.
And so perhaps that answers your final question, about what it means to have the Son. The answers to that are in Chapter 14 of John (you know, when we became Christians I knew nothing about the Bible nor how much wisdom it held!). Jesus said:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
That seems pretty direct, doesn’t it? So either he was telling the truth or he was a madman or liar. I know this is one of those difficult things to accept about Christians, but it’s what we believe – that Jesus was the Son of God and that we are required to make a choice whether to accept him or not.
My own faith is very simple. I don’t get into theology or speculation about end times. But for someone like me, who experienced the kind of conversion where I said a simple childlike prayer acknowledging the sin in my life, accepting Jesus as God’s provision to bridge that separation, and surrendering my life to Him, and then suddenly everything was fresh and new and I felt loved and infused with purpose and peace – well, it was a leap of faith the reality of which has been revealed in the past twenty years of my life.
When you ask if a GLBT can be a Christian, I have to say yes, a GLBT can be a Christian just as an alcoholic or a gambler or an adulterer or pornography addict or a mother who yells at her children can be a Christian. We are all sinners and we all fall short of the glory of God. But when I think of being a Christian, I think of someone who puts God first in their lives and is willing to grow and change and let Him take him or her where He will. Becoming a believer means putting all your assumptions – all the things you thought were true – aside and trying to see things from God’s perspective and to live according to His will. For someone like me who fought for abortion rights and had one myself (at the time a simple inconvenience – if you don’t understand how sacred your own life is, how can you understand the sacredness of someone else’s?), it means that some of your most deeply held convictions may be subject to change.
To me a Christian is an overcomer – someone empowered by the Holy Spirit to transcend whatever sin may have once had the power to consume him.
Yes, Jonathan, that leads us to the place where you may be saying, “Ah ha! She does think homosexuality is a sin!” And perhaps this it the Gotcha! moment you are looking for. Because the fact of the matter is that yes, I do think homosexuality is a sin – just as I think all the things I mentioned above are sins. But I also know that God loves us and continues to reach for us no matter what. I believe in miracles. I believe that God can turn the hardest heart into the most tender and teachable. And I am grateful enough that he reached mine that I would take the time to answer your questions as carefully as I can. You are worth it.
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Comments
When you ask if a GLBT can be a Christian, I have to say yes, a GLBT can be a Christian just as an alcoholic or a gambler or an adulterer or pornography addict or a mother who yells at her children can be a Christian. We are all sinners and we all fall short of the glory of God. But when I think of being a Christian, I think of someone who puts God first in their lives and is willing to grow and change and let Him take him or her where He will. Becoming a believer means putting all your assumptions – all the things you thought were true – aside and trying to see things from God’s perspective and to live according to His will.
This is so well put and hits right at the heart of the matter. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Michelle
Posted by: Baleboosteh | May 17, 2007 3:32 AM
Dear Barbara,
Thank you so much for the time you put into this response. I still don't quite understand why you perceive people who may disagree with you on some issues reading your blog as "stalking" you (how else can we learn from each other?) but I think it's good for everyone to have these conversations.
To me, being a Christian means that each day I try to think less of myself and more of others. That I am open to learning where I have been wrong and willing to change. That I look for ways to serve and help others. And specifically for me, because that is my calling, that I help make the world a better place for children.
Well, exactly. The irony is that Jonathan and I are activists for precisely this reason. We would like nothing better than to live in a world where people are not singled out for mistreatment because of their sexual orientation and/or gender expression. We also are multi-dimensional people, and our hope for the children of today is that when they grow up they will not have to navigate a culture that makes their sexuality the defining feature of who they are.
Obviously, we disagree with your equation of living a life of integrity with the laundry list of anti-social behavior with which you end your post. I believe that it is God's will that sexual orientation and gender identity occur on a continuum - a view not coincidentally supported by the biological sciences. The work I do to make the world a better place, including this conversation, is where God is taking me. Perhaps this is where God is taking you, also.
I hope you have a blessed day, and look forward to continuing the conversation.
Posted by: David Weintraub | May 17, 2007 10:23 AM
Very well put, Barbara. Might I add that when I became a christian, although I had grown up "believing" in Jesus - this was merely a head belief. You know, a mental assent to a fact. However, I had not repented of sin in my life (abortions, homosexual acts, adultery, pride and a multitude of other sins of commission and omission)and believed that I had to be a good person to get to heaven. But God's word is very clear when it says "all have sinned and all fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) Jesus Himself said in Luke 13:3 that unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Isaiah 64:6 says "But we are all as an unclean thing and our righteousnesses(good works) are as filthy rags". Jeremiah 17:9 says "the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
The Holy Spirit began to convict me of sin and I began to have a desire to know more about Jesus than ever before. I had grown up in a religion that puts the focus on Jesus' mother, but I wanted to know about HIM. Through a series of circumstances only God could've put into motion, I met two wonderful ladies who asked me "if you were to die tonight, where would you spend eternity?" WOW! What a sobering question. And I wasn't quite sure how to answer it. I said "...Heaven, I think". They asked me what I based that on and I told them it was because I was a good person. I was then shown in the Bible for myself what God had to say about our "goodness" - that none of us is good nor could we earn our way to heaven thru good works. Being a good, moral person is not going to cut it. When we think we can earn our way into Heaven, this is an audacious affront the the truth of God's holiness and His truth regarding our sinful state. Christ's death and resurection was the sufficient payment for our sins and nothing else. My pastor says "morality may keep you out of jail, but it won't keep you out of Hell". How true. All I knew the evening I talked with those ladies was that I was tired of living the kind of life I had been living, it was sin and I was not sure where I would end up eternally. All I did was tell God that I was very, very sorry for my sin(which, indeed, I was), that I wanted to live differently, but couldn't do that on my own and that I truly believed Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for my sin and that He is the Son of God and God.
I didn't realize the implications of my decision that evening, but the next day things were very different. All the rage and hate was gone. The fear of nuclear war was gone. A peace that passes all understanding had settled in my soul like nothing I'd ever experienced. I began to read the Bible voraciously and UNDERSTOOD it. It was like "Wow! So, that's what this means!" When we accept Christ as our Savior and surrender our lives to Him, He comes in to take residence in our hearts through the Holy Spirit and our "eyes" are opened. I now have that constant conviction of sin whereas before I could sin as I pleased without batting an eye. I have love for enemies that can only be described as supernatural because on my own I cannot love my enemies as I am commanded to do by Christ. I am now a child of God. This was not always so. God says "but as many as received Him, to them He gave power TO BECOME sons of God, even to Him that believe on His name"(John 1:12) We are NOT children of God UNTIL we believe.
My life is not without sin. I will be a sinner until the Lord calls me home. But now the former things I did I don't want to do anymore. And He empowers me to live a holy and pleasing life. We cannot do this on our own. He changes our wants and desires and lovingly points out behaviors, thought patterns and attitudes that are sinful and not pleasing to Him. God can change any person regardless of where they've been and what they've done. Murder, adultery, heresy, homosexuality, lying, witchcraft, etc., etc. I know people who have come out of so many things that would shock us and yet Jesus has cleaned them from the inside out and their lives shine His glory for all to see. God calls homosexuality a sin. It is not just our opinion. But He calls many other things sin as well. We are ALL sinners in desperate need of Jesus.
To Jonathan Jesus says "Come...
Posted by: Libby | May 17, 2007 10:40 AM
Very well said, Barbara; this is a very grace-filled response to his questions. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Posted by: Jana | May 17, 2007 10:43 AM
Exactly what I was thinking, Michelle (Baleboosteh). Homosexuality may be a sin, but we are right there with them. Thank God for sending His Son or we'd ALL be lost!
Posted by: Michelle Potter | May 17, 2007 12:00 PM
Good reply Barbara. I hope your commenter reads it and continues a dialogue.
Posted by: Imajackson | May 17, 2007 12:02 PM
Barbara - you've done such a good job with this answer. So often I admire how you are able to succinctly yet compassionately think thru an issue. I have learned much through you.
I came back today, though, because I wanted to add something to the "Can a GLBT be a Christian" question.
I liked your answer - but I'm not sure about the leap that some of your responders are making following your answer. Yes, we have all sinned. But if we claim Christ as our Savior - do we maintain unrepentant sin in our lives? If we say we are a Christian, and thus carry Christ's name - can we continue to admit to harboring lust, adulterous behavior, lying, gossip and a myriad of other sins in our hearts? By the same application - can a person continue on in the GLBT life - and say they are a Christian? I would question that. Yes - there are levels of maturity and God is incredibly merciful and gives us time once we become Christians to overcome our "issues." And yet, to say, "I'm a Christian and I carry this sin in my life...willingly, unrepentantly, even happily..." Well, that becomes problematic in my view.
I'm a simple Christian too. (That is not the same as an unthinking Christian.) Theology can become terribly complex - and so I choose to keep it simple. For me, this means believing God when he says something is a sin and not trying to twist it to say what I want it to say.
One last thought. Sin is sin is sin. Yet - some sins have more societal detriment attached to them. Gluttony, for example, seems to directly affect the individual and perhaps his family. Gossip carries much harm - both directly and indirectly. But homosexuality as a matter of radical agenda has the potential to change and destroy a society. It destroys marriages, and families, and harms children. There can be no denial for those who wish to truly be honest that a child does best when raised by a traditional loving family. Yes - the traditional family is a vehicle for abuse at times, too - but that does not negate that in its best and proper form it offers the best chance of producing a healthy, well-adjusted child.
Thanks for being willing to talk about a difficult issue. Most Christians today do not want to tackle this. It is too easily misconstrued as a personal attack, when it is not meant to be so. It is an agenda that must be stood up against - not individuals.
Posted by: Holly | May 17, 2007 3:57 PM
Holly -
Thanks for clarifying that for me. Implicit in what I said about a GLBT being able to be a Christian is the assumption that he or she would be changed and leave that lifestyle behind. That's what I jmeant when I said I turned from being completely pro-abortion to being completely pro-life - all before I ever talked to another Christian, but just because God was having a conversation with my heart.
So let me make that perfectly clear. I believe that if a GLBT made a serious commitment to Christ - surrendering his or her life completely - that he or she would be led out of the bondage of that particular sin.
My belief is that when GLBTs call themselves Christian and we see no change in their lives, it's because they have not COMPLETELY surrendered. But there are plenty of heterosexual Christians like that too.
Also I agree Holly, that what makes homosexuality a greater threat than other sins is the radical political agenda which is actively at war with Christianity and the traditional family. Part of that agenda is to sexualize children as early as possible and it is telling that GLBTs rail against abstinence education and restrictions on access to pornography.
I have, btw, deleted a few comments from homosexuals who want a soapbox for their philosophy (ditto those attacking Falwell). This is my soapbox and I don't ascribe to the idea that bloggers have an obligation to print all comments. We all get plenty of exposure to pro-gay stuff in the mainstream media, I don't go to gay blogs to argue with their owners, and I don't feel it's appropriate for them to come here to argue with me.
Besides, I get plenty of flak for my writing elsewhere and I consider this blog like my home, where I'm always in charge (except when Tripp is home :)
Posted by: barbaracurtis | May 17, 2007 4:32 PM
You were quite clear to me, Barbara...I just wasn't sure where some of your readers were taking it.
But thanks for taking the opportunity to further elaborate! I fully agree with you.
Posted by: Holly | May 17, 2007 6:51 PM
