July 9, 2007 7:27 PM
Something to talk about: Biblical movies
I'd really like to discuss this. Will you read through and tell me what you think?
Barbara,Maybe you could help me out on this one. I don't want to be a Pharisee. My husband and I have discussed this topic but have not reached a conclusion yet.
As Christians, should we accept (and be entertained by) someone taking one of the pillar stories of faith from our Bible (Noah's story) and presenting it the way Evan Almighty does? Would any of the disciples have found this entertaining? Or would they be offended? What should our response be?
Part of me thinks we should speak out against diluted and changed versions of the stories from our Bible.
What do you think?
I got into this the Christmas before last when I wrote Rethinking Veggie Tales: The time has come. Though it's a year and half later and the middle of July, I think what I said then is pretty indicative of how I really feel - so I'll save us some time and just post it:
Can you believe this?
I'm a little hesitant to say anything negative, because my cynicism about Mr. Rogers landed me in some hot water - well, not boiling, but I do care when people don't like what I say!
While I loved Veggie Tales at first, I think it's gotten very, very old. And the problem with Christian marketing is they want to make Larry Boy not just an interesting detour into a Bilbe story, but your child's best friend and way of life. Sometimes I try to picture how today's kids who've grown up on a steady diet of Veggie Tales will make the transition to find much of interest in the Bible, to find the stories compelling, or to take them seriously.
And I just have to say I'm offended by the Baby Jesus as a vegetable!!!!
Key to Montessori's teaching was the idea that when the child is in the stage of the Absorbent Mind, they are taking in everything we give them and it is becoming their very foundation. Which is why a child raised in China speaks perfect Chinese and a child raised here speaks perfect English, and a child raised in a bilingual home will speak two languages perfectly.
Whatever images and ideas and concrete information we give our child now will be there forever. Wouldn't you rather have your child have an appreciation for good music, fine art and design than for veggies with no arms, silly voices, and stupid antics?
Parents - it's really time to reconsider some of the dopey stuff being peddled to our kids. I mean, it's amusing, but wouldn't their time be better spent learning the actual Bible stories and using their imaginations rather than being entertained by Christian cartoon figures conceived with the purpose of competing with worldly cartoon characters? What does that say about the Bible? That it's really not interesting enough to capture the hearts and minds of our children?
Do we really not trust the Bible enough to present it on its own merit, doing our best to make the stories come alive and using appropriate materials. Do we really have to have silliness to make it speak to a child?
There, I've said it. And I think that's the end of Veggie Tales in my house. Baby Jesus as a vegetable, sheesh!
There, I've said it again. And I'd just like to add that if C. S. Lewis had limited his imagination to recreate Bible stories with a bunch of animals rather than spinning brand new stories with biblical themes the world would be a poorer place. Of course, in The Chronicles of Narnia, the themes of redemption and sacrifice are undeniable - and that's because C. S. Lewis was a Christian so his worldview permeated everything he wrote.
As humans, we were created to be co-creators. We can waste our imaginations or we can put them to intelligent use. I have to say, at bottom, I find these modern twists on Bible stories to be rather trivializing and I think we are probably doing kids a disservice by underestimating the power of the actual stories to speak to the hearts of our children - I mean, they're God's children first and foremost.
Then too, a lot of people are keeping busy and making money in the industry of merchandising Bible stories for kids.
What do you all think?
Comments
Barbara~
I mostly agree with you on this topic. I remember when my children were small (they are adults now) I was very careful to NOT read them Bible stories out of books or watch videos that made the Bible characters look "cartoonish" or silly. I just didn't want those images stuck in their minds when they would read the Bible or would think about the Bible stories.
I, however, am captivated by CS Lewis' and JRR Tolkein's writings. I think the difference is that both Lewis and Tolkein were taking Biblical PRINCIPLES and framing those principles in mythical stories that stirred the heart, emotions, and imagination. And, I think that is very different than making silly cartoons out of Bible characters.
That's my opinion....
Posted by: A Grandma | July 9, 2007 8:24 PM
Watching Veggie Tales actually confuses my kids when I tell them the real story. "No - that's not right - the people of Jericho threw SLUSHIES over the wall and onto the Israelites, Mom!!" After a few times of things like that, I decided to give Veggie Tales the boot. [mostly, see below]
We are currently reading through Egermeier's Bible Story book - and my initial thought was "Yikes, this is too detailed!" but both of my boys (5 1/2, 3) have learned a lot (so have I) and our interest and imagination have increased the more we read.
That being said, once we know the Real Story, I have no problem getting a Veggie Tales video from the library and letting my kids compare notes. By doing this, they tune into the details and the comparing-contrasting cements the true story in their minds. Plus Mommy gets a 20 minute break. :)
Posted by: Lisa | July 9, 2007 8:29 PM
Amen!
Posted by: dawn | July 9, 2007 8:39 PM
I couldn't agree more. I am disgusted by the commercialism of Bible-themed movies and children's products. I can hardly walk into a Christian bookstore anymore, and prefer to buy Christian books and materials through Amazon or something similar. While I think the original purpose and vision for VeggieTales was God-honoring and a brilliant example of the creative mind, I would much rather my children hear the word of God come alive by its own merit than by having to fit the mold of Nickelodeon and Disney.
Posted by: Elizabeth | July 9, 2007 9:16 PM
Barbara,
I'm encouraged to see someone tackle these difficult topics. We recently got rid of all of our Veggie Tales videos for this very reason. It just seemed watered down to me. God's word is alive and will not return void and I believe this speaks as much to our children as to the adults reading it. We have decided NOT to see Evan Almighty. I have heard that it can really make you think about things, like being obedient to what God calls you do to no matter the circumstances.
Angie
Posted by: Angie | July 9, 2007 9:22 PM
I could not agree with you more. It sickened me when we received a catalog this past Christmas, and I saw the Veggie Tales nativity set. We serve a holy God who sent His only son to die for us; it is offensive to think of someone presenting God's precious Son in that manner. Thank you for taking a stand on this.
Posted by: Karen | July 9, 2007 9:27 PM
THANK YOU for this post...people act like I'm nuts when I say something to this effect. My family has been asked not to buy any more of these for our children (we have one from one back).
Posted by: Cathy | July 9, 2007 10:08 PM
I have to agree with you somewhat. I can't say i'm totally against veggie tales because i have many of the videos. LOL Though i never got into the larry boy movies. I deff like the veggie tales though as opposed to other cartoons out there. and I have to give them props for producing quality christian films, even if they are short. so many times i watch a christian film and i'm distracted by the low budget-ness (if that's a word) mainly b/c i like to watch well made films. That being said I do like the stories they do one of my fave's it the tale of Flibberolou (SP?). I do really like Big Iea's 321 Penguins. I'm always refering to them and their "seeds of discontent" (i think that was the carnival of complaining episode) when my daughters are complaining or just being unpleasent.
anyways i think they may have lost something when Big Idea was bought out. Maybe b/c it seems teh focus is on marketing not the stories...
but then again that's just MHO
Posted by: Allena | July 9, 2007 10:23 PM
I agree with you. I never got into veggie tales and now my kids are too old for them.
I've also never liked most Bible story books, especially the ones with the cartoon pictures- hate those horrid things. :)
Posted by: Joanna | July 9, 2007 10:23 PM
I agree with you about the trivialization of Bible stories, and the offensiveness of portraying Jesus as a vegetable. I have enough trouble with human representations of Jesus! I actually remember hearing an interview some time ago with someone (maybe the creator?) from VeggieTales, who said that one of their original principles had been that they would not portray Jesus as a vegetable. Sadly, I think the company has been bought by someone else or in some other way abandoned their original principles; their recent material is not as good as the old stuff was. My kids do love it, but I limit exposure (although I limit exposure to other things far more -- VeggieTales a few times a month, Power Rangers never), and we do a lot more real Bible reading than we do VeggieTale-watching.
Newt
Posted by: Newt Sherwin | July 9, 2007 10:46 PM
I on one of the older veggie tales videos the producers said that they agreed at the beginning not to portray Jesus as a vegetable, so I'm surprised that they have.Not that I think veggie tales is the best option for teaching my children either.
And I think people upset over Evan Almighty are too uptight. It's Christians who take themselves too seriously that seem to alienate non-Christians. What, you think Jesus never laughed or enjoyed a good joke?
Posted by: carrien | July 9, 2007 11:30 PM
Hi Barbara,
I was feeling a little apprehensive about seeing Evan Almighty for many of the same reasons you mention. My daughter, who is twelve, voiced her desire to see it. She knows the biblical version of Noah and the flood but it seemed from the commercials to be almost mocking the Bible. Good family movies are hard to come by but that is still not a reason to fill my daughter's head with information that might belittle our faith.
Your take on VeggieTales makes sense and I'm kind of surprised I've never heard others voice the same concerns.
Posted by: Molly | July 9, 2007 11:33 PM
I have learned it is important to know the true Bible story inside and out before watching any movie version. I saw the Moses movie over and over as a child, and then when I was going through the Bible in detail, I realized I had memorized the story according to the MOVIE as fact. I won't watch a movie that is making fun of the Bible. My children don't watch them (but I have) so I hadn't thought very deeply about the Veggie Tales.
Posted by: Angela | July 9, 2007 11:51 PM
our children (2, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 14) never really 'got' veggie tales. the kids just didn't think they were that funny. and i guess i don't feel guilty that we don't own any veggie tales movies. maybe they are trying to appeal to non-christians by making the bible palatable? don't know. but commercializing jesus is just awful. i recently went into a christian book store (after not being in one for over 6 months) and walked out with a bad taste in my mouth. i think the last thing i saw as i left the store were flip-flops with 'jesus' on the foot bed. those were for sale next to the 'jesus' beach towel. who really needs those things?!
i haven't seen 'evan almighty' yet. don't know that i need to. i'm vaguely familiar with some sort of worm-like cartoon that's supposed to be bible-/christian-themed. i believe my kids watched it at a friend's house and were not impressed. but you are right....people are making lots of money dumbing-down the bible (they're just not making it from me!)
p.s. got the books in the mail today--thanks!
Posted by: deborah | July 9, 2007 11:52 PM
Oh my goodness, I so TOTALLY agree. I've always hated Veggie Tales for trivializing at the very least and distorting at the very worst the great stories from the history of our faith that we hold to be true. I know nothing about this new movie, but the whole Veggie Tale thing and other things of its ilk drive me BATTY.
Posted by: dcrmom | July 10, 2007 7:37 AM
i agree with you 100%.
Posted by: agatha | July 10, 2007 9:32 AM
I agree with you on both, Veggie Tales and Evan Almighty. There's way too much worldliness and trivialization going on within the church. The sad thing is that Evan Almighty is being marketed to christians and there are pastors who are actually recommending to their congregations to see this trash. I suggest everyone check out
www.sliceoflaodicea.com
Thank you so much, Barbara, for addressing this issue. It is much needed today. We as a church need to wake up from our slumber and realize the wolves have infiltrated.
Posted by: Libby | July 10, 2007 10:12 AM
I don't mind the first veggietales; I think what they were doing was taking a Christian principle and making a movie out of it. I personally like "Lyle, the friendly vyking" which talks about stealing, sharing and being nice to people who have not been nice to us. I like the message. But I agree, at some point they departed from that and started making waterdown Christian stories.
I think the great success of "The Passion of the Christ" really got some money-hungry people just drooling for Christian people's money, so they have come up with some crazy things, like the other commenter mentioned before, but come on, who buys those things??? sandals???? towels???? what's next....paper towels? toilet paper?
I think all of us would benefit from making informed choices. Not just because it says "JESUS" in it means that a Christian company is behind it. Just think about it. REAL Christian companies would not be using the name of JESUS si lightly and putting it just anywhere.
Same goes for movies. Who is behind these movies and what are their real motives? Are they really trying to deliver a Biblical message or are they trying to kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the Christian crowd asking for more Hollywood quality "christian" movies while at the same time telling none-Christians that biblical tales are rather a laughing matter? Who knows.
In my opinion Christians should excercise caution while making decisions about watching Christian movies delivered by Hollywood, after all, Hollywood is one of the most anti-christian establishments in the US, why should we trust them when they want to give us "biblical" movies?
Just my two cents.
Oh! and by the way, I'm not "uptight" at all.
Posted by: LadyLovas | July 10, 2007 10:55 AM
Lisa's final comments were basically what I was going to say. My kids know the difference and know that the Veggies are geared to kids, so the details are skewed a bit. Some of their favorite "veggie" stories have been the perfect jump into delving into the real story.
I think it depends on how the parents use the stories. We are, after all, the ones responsible for the formation of our children.
Posted by: Holly | July 10, 2007 11:30 AM
VeggieTales became popular when I was in high school and my brothers and I really enjoyed the first few videos. I think some of the stories, where they took principles and put them into fictional stories (like the Frankencelery story, teaching kids not to worry because God is bigger than imagined monsters) were excellent. Story-telling is a very powerful teaching tool. However, I agree that the fictionalized versions of Bible stories are dangerous. I would object to some VeggieTales episodes while embracing others.
I have trouble with ANY fictionalized or changed versions of Bible stories, because as one commentor said, it's easy to accept the "movie version" as fact, and then be surprised and confused when reading the actual Bible.
Posted by: Becky Miller | July 10, 2007 1:28 PM
I'm a baby Christian and I'll be the first to admit that VeggieTales actually helped me understand the bible more than in Sunday School.
For instance, up until Josh and the Big Wall I didn't know that Moses and the children of Israel were forbidden to go into the promised land after they disobeyed God.
I just thought they were lost for 40 years.
OK, perhaps not a great example because I was never really interested in reading the bible until three years ago when I did finally accept Christ but it was a huge "OH!" moment for me at the time.
Anyway, we won't be seeing Evan Almighty because we have limited time to see movies and I hate to waste money on something I don't think we'd enjoy all that much (movies are for entertaining, IMO). When we saw the previews before Meet the Robinson's my 12 year old daughter got a bit excited about the movie and I leaned over and whispered, "You do know what's fundamentally wrong about this entire movie don't you?"
She thought about it and said, "no."
"Well, in the bible God promised Noah that he'd never destroy the earth by flood again."
"That's right!" She stopped to think about it then said, "It's a stupid movie."
So, OK, perhaps I did learn something in Sunday school after all.
I trust my daughter's faith in God to know that I can let her see this movie without worrying about her faith wavering. But I'd still rather not waste the money.
Posted by: Spring | July 10, 2007 1:28 PM
You know, I think if we look deep at pretty much anything, including the Bible, anyone can find fault with it. And to make that statement clear, I believe the Bible to be God's word and infallible yet if we become nit-picky about it we can turn it into a point of debate like so many religious issues have become.
I personally think veggie-tales are great, clean family entertainment if you watch it just for that reason. As far as it confusing my kids....I don't find that to be an issue because we read and discuss the Bible often so they know the real stories as well as the veggie ones. Sometimes they've even been a great starting point for conversation and study.
I agree with one of the commenters above that we need to approach what Hollywood puts out concerning morals and Bible stories with caution and care. A lot of times it's coming from a place of monopolizing on the christian communities desire for wholesome entertainment but slipping in some yuck right along with it.
Gayle
Posted by: Grace For Gayle | July 10, 2007 2:57 PM
My Dear Barbara,
Having majored in Christian Education and Family Ministries, I'm surprised by the lack of influence I've put in my child's life of these "Christian" Characters such as Veggie Tales. I have to say that I whole heartedly agree with you. It's quite disconcerting to me how the Christian bookstore has turned into a marketplace of "junk" with little or no wholesome quality. What's even scarier is that you take your 2 year old to church or almost anywhere and there's a video for him to watch and it's probably veggie tales. Why can't he just play? Why can't we teach them about God's amazing creation? If I take him to the beach on the lake with nothing but his swimsuit and some sunscreen, he can entertain his mind for hours with sand and rocks and bugs and water. The whole philosophy of Christian kids entertainment is frustrating to me.
~ Catherine
Posted by: Catherine | July 11, 2007 1:21 AM
I hate to disagree with you twice in one day because I love you and I love your blog and I love what you stand for...
But I love me some Veggies. I don't love the new distributors and some of the changes that have been made since Phil Vischer had to sell the company, but I honestly love the stories and the characters. And I am afraid to admit that we have the nativity set you condemned above. Why? I collect nativities, and I don't let my kids play with the fancy breakable ones. So they have a cloth one, a cardboard/book one, a Fisher Price one and they have this one.
Jesus called himself the Light of the World, the Good Shepherd, the Door, the Vine. He used parables (simple illustrative stories in the vernacular of his time) to teach people-- why not use vegetables?
To me Jesus as a vegetable is not offensive-- maybe there is something wrong with me. I also have a snowman nativity. I have to rethink this, because I honestly never saw it as dishonoring to God.
One of my favorite Veggietales is Rack Shack and Benny (Shadrach Meshack and Abegnego) and I have to tell you, it thrilled my soul a little when my 12 year old leaned over in church one day during a sermon about the fiery furnace and we said in unison "and one of them is real shiny." He got it. He knew the story, and he knew that Jesus was in the fire with them and saved them from destruction. Does it matter that he learned it from talking, singing vegetables? I don't think so.
~Leslie
Posted by: My Twenty Cents Keeps Moving | July 11, 2007 2:08 AM
I agree. Of course, children aren't the only ones being sold a watered down Christianity. It sickens me how so many churches today are afraid to preach the real gospel. They can go months without quoting a scripture verse. Some churches actually apologize for the Bible - wouldn't want to offend anyone, you know!!! People could go to such churches for years and never really know the God of the Bible. We attended two different churches in which the pastors would say when discussing some biblical concept, "this is just a 'churchy' word for ..." Honestly, they treat the congregations as if they are too stupid to understand anything. Everything for adults is watered down. Of course many think children could never understand. If children 100 years ago could understand the Bible without vegetables for characters, why can't our children today? What makes them so special that they need to be feed silliness in the hopes that they will learn something? Where is the challenge? Why not raise the bar and expect that people will stretch to reach it? These churches and organizations are doing a disservice to the very people they think they are helping. Children and adults are capable of much more in the faith than most give credit for.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Posted by: Benita | July 11, 2007 12:29 PM
I, too, love the Veggie tales. However, the ones my kids watch are the ones that stories with Biblical morals and teaching, not the Bible stories. I don't like Jesus being represented as a vegetable, either. But I love Lyle the Kindly Viking. It's my favorite. :) We don't actually have many movies at all. I prefer the kids to watch quieter videos and real movies than kid-vids. They like The Little Princess (with Shirley Temple) and the Black Stallion. (My kids are 6, 3 and 1.) They used to watch a lot of Thomas the Tank Engine and now they like the Princess Gigi books and movies by Sheila Walsh. My 3 year old still loves Baby Einstein.
My main problem with the Veggie Tales is they're so frantic, like so many other kid-vids. They don't watch Sesame Street for the same reason. I just don't see any good getting the kids used to the loud, obnoxious, fast pace of most videos. Maybe I'm especially sensitive to it because we're Eastern Orthodox and our services are, well, not about entertainment at all. While there is lots of singing and even quite a bit of moving around (bowing, kneeling, making the sign of the cross, etc.), it's not loud or fast and doesn't have much variety. I want to do what I can to keep my kids from being bored by church and I think one way is to limit their entertainment experiences.
As to Evan Almighty, I don't know. I wouldn't let my kids see it. I liked Bruce Almighty, but I'm an adult. I guess my feelings about it are similar to how I felt about Shrek. I liked it ok, but I didn't want my kids to see it and I was not happy when they did see it without my permission. I didn't want my kids to learn the fractured fairytales first, because it would forever color their perspective of real fairytales. My kids act out Sleeping Beauty and Snow White and Robin Hood. I want them to love the fairytales and understand the deeper meanings, not see them as silly and laughable. I feel that way even more strongly about the Bible and Jesus. I'd really rather see stories that communicate good morals without being Biblical (although I do love me some Ben Hur and The Ten Commandments!). I'd rather watch Signs than Evan Almight, I guess. Although, from what I've read, the director (or producer or whoever) is a Christian. I don't mind making the Bible accessible to unbelievers. But I don't feel the need to see it myself, at least not in the theater.
So basically, I think I totally agree with you, Barbara. :)
Posted by: Lucy | July 11, 2007 2:06 PM
As long as you're not relying on them to teach the Bible stories, then I think they're okay. I don't have a strong feeling about it.
But I have to say I know tons of people who call themselves Christians and have no idea what is in the Bible or only vaguely understand it's theme. Probably for those people it might be difficult to separate fact from vegetable.
The movies I find much more disturbing are things like "A City of Angels." It was billed as a feel-good movie, had Meg Ryan and Nicholas Cage as very sympathetic characters, and wanted you to root for their romance. But the story line? Hmm, an angel looks down from heaven, falls in love with a human, takes human form and then makes love to her (without benefit of marriage). Bad is good.
Posted by: Amy K. | July 13, 2007 12:42 AM
Hi Barbara,
You might be unaware that Phil Vischer doesn't own VeggieTales anymore - it was sold on the auction block. He posts how this came about in great detail on his blog:
http://www.philvischer.com/index.php/?p=38
I have to say, I got a distaste for it as well when there was so much commercialism coming about - Larry Boy Potato Head dolls, fabric for curtains, logos on shoes, kid's meal toys...
Posted by: Milehimama | July 13, 2007 2:12 PM
Please remember that for the past 2-3 years VeggieTales has been owned by &/or a subsidiary of a SECULAR company. Big Idea went bankrupt right after putting out the Jonah movie and have been sold and traded and taken over a couple of times. May I suggest that you read Phil Vischer's book "Me, Myself and Bob" - it gives some really good insight into what he and Mike were thinking when they created VT, how he admits that his own pride got in the way and a candid description of the "fall of VT".
As an adult (I'm 35) with no children I refer to myself as the 'oldest Veggie fan without children' - note my email address of TechnoCuke, the technology cucumber.
Entertainment is entertainment - Bible study is Bible study. Anyone who confuses VT with Bible Study as a whole different problem. It's pure, simple entertainment and a whole lot better than some stuff that is out there for kids (Christian or secular).
Thanks!
Posted by: Christopher MacNutt | March 25, 2008 11:33 AM
