February 3, 2008 5:49 PM
Evangelical to Catholic: my journey #18
[Note: this is part of a continuing series chronicling my journey from evangelicalism to Catholicism. This series is not meant to cause division, but to reveal division already there - and to spark honest discussion. As an evangelical I've heard and continue to hear lots of criticism of the Catholic church but little self-examination on the Protestant side. So if my comments seem more directed towards questioning nonCatholic believers, that is why. Please, if you are new to this discussion, realize that a lot of ground has already been covered in the comments and read through those on previous entries before rehashing old news. I am receiving a lot of feedback that this has been an eye-opening and thought-provoking series for many believers on either side. If that is the case, then I consider my call as a writer fulfilled. I can only hope that each of us is examining his/her conscience for areas of stubbornness, presumption and pride.]
Apparently I'm not the only one. Apparently, many of us are asking the same questions and moving through some unexpected places in our faith journey. Here are three letters received from a reader over the last two months. The first was 11/24:
Barbara, thank you for your honesty. It is so refreshing. Your interest in the Catholic church intrigues me (I'm an Evangelical that has known nothing else my whole Christian life), and I am hoping you speak more about it in future.I think I can honestly say that the behavior of the evangelical community online has dented my faith considerably with the "gotcha" spirit I've mostly encountered (and participated in after years of training, I'm afraid). I'm tired of it. I'm yearning for a stability I don't easily find in the Protestant churches. I found your comments about the "protest" foundations of the Protestant movement very revealing. We truly are always protesting. Ick. Anyway, some of us do appreciate your posts about your faith journey.
I had dabbled in the "patriarchy" movement for a few years, thinking they had it all together. Well, that was a mistake. The palpable arrogance and hypocrisy became too much for me and I now no longer want anything to do with it or its leaders.
This faith journey is hard. I pray God gives you wisdom as you take each step in this new direction He is bringing you to. Please continue to share what God shows you. Some of us want to hear about it!
Received from the same reader 12/10:
I sometimes wonder where I'd be in my faith were it not for the blogging community. Thanks to a huge amount of confusion and conflict inflicted on us in the blogging world by the evangelical community, I think many blogging evangelicals are questioning their faith and are wondering where they should go. The whole sola scriptura thing really strikes me as being at the heart of the problem. Too many conflicting opinions being presented using Scripture to back them up. Too many "I'm right, you're wrong" mini popes out there. I just have to ask myself, where is Christ in all of this. How could He be allowing this confusion and discord to exist?When you mentioned the Protestant "protest" thing a light went on in my head, and I felt some hope seep into me that maybe there was another path to follow. Yes, Protestants are all about protesting, and not just about doctrine. Everything! I, for one, am tired of it. I just want to go and worship God at church.
I have been dreading going to church now for many months and have looked for every excuse I could to avoid going. Isn't that sad? But that's where I've been. It all started with the whole Doug Phillips thing. I was being drawn to the Vision Forum "vision" because I wanted meaning and purpose in my life beyond the easy-believism. But the veil on that was lifted, as you know, and I saw it for what it really was and felt very sad that that vision was gone for me. I wondered where to turn next. I was very dissatisfied with church in general at this point. I was so confused and unhappy because I couldn't plug in anywhere. I couldn't feel like I was a part of anything around me. I was afraid to take a step in any direction because it seemed there was no direction with sure footing.
The interesting thing is that I see many other online evangelicals in the same boat as me. They are unsure of where to step and some are looking into the Eastern Orthodox church and some are looking into the Catholic church for answers. I think the main reason for this is that they (and I) are wanting spiritual stability in an ever-changing spiritual world and they're not finding it in denominations-r-us-land. Don't like something your denomination is doing? Start another one! How presumptuous! Doesn't God care that we believers are so fractious? Does evangelicalism truly represent God's kingdom to the world? If so, we are in deep trouble. There is no true unity anymore. It's just us against them. It's all about who's "right" now.
Things are not so cut and dried for me anymore. I'm open to rethinking things. And while at one time I never would have believed anything other than sola scriptura, now I'm open to learning about church history and how the Holy Scriptures came about. The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. How was it formed? and what was the "tradition" before it was formed? I think we evangelicals are terribly ignorant about this. We are not taught about the origins of Scripture. We treat Scripture as if it fell from the sky, don't we? But God worked through men to bring it to us. And He worked through men before it was formed. Those men couldn't say they believed only in sola scriptura, now, could they? The apostles had only the old testament. Or were there other documents they used as well? See, I need to learn about these things.
So now I want to begin learning about the church in general and the Catholic church in particular. I want to investigate the Catholic church's history and its claim to exclusivity. I need to know why it is seen as the true church by many. I need to know how the Bible was formed and why the Catholics accept the Apocrypha, but Protestants don't.
For once, I am open to having been wrong in my assumptions. My husband is not too happy about this. He's still a happy Protestant. But I must not stuff down these things I'm dealing with inside or I fear my faith will perish. It is that fragile right now.
This is no minor thing for me, as you can see. But I am scared to death to proceed. Once burned, twice shy. Lord, help me. I don't know where this will take me.
Barbara, please continue to share. I and many others need to hear it. In fact, I wondered if you had thought about doing a blog just on your faith journey. I think it would be a hit. It would be with me!
I've begun researching the Catholic faith online and have been surprised at how ignorant I was about it and how seemingly ignorant those protestants who taught me about it were. I am very drawn to the unity issue, as you are. I need to feel like I'm a part of something big. Right now, I feel very alone. But I'm hoping that will change. It excites me to see many Catholics in love with the Church. I want to love the Church, too, if that is God's will for me. I hope that didn't sound too strange.
Well, there you have it. My guts spilled out for you to see. ;) Trust me, I have not shared much at all with anyone else, but I feel I can share with you.
Btw, my father is a non-practicing Catholic as was his mother (I'm not sure about my grandfather - I'm assuming he was, too). He wears a St. Joseph's medal around his neck and has the guilt down cold. heh I'm tempted to talk with him, but I don't think the time is right. My mother is a non-practicing Lutheran and they never took me to church. But they did allow me to go with friends to mostly baptist churches growing up.
Please keep in touch. I'd love to converse with you more on this.
I had asked permission to reprint these email here, but never got around to it, so they languished in my Inbox and I was too busy to reply. Obviously, God was at work - received this from the same dear lady 1/24:
Hey Barbara! It's me again. I just wanted to update you on where things have been with me since last we spoke. I have been buying books like crazy and reading like there's no tomorrow. Not to mention, I've been researching the Catholic faith online and have found some awesome resources like the Coming Home Network, EWTN's audio library for The Journey Home show, and Scott Hahn's website.I've subscribed to some Catholic blogs to hear things from that perspective. Here are some of them:
God-Fearin' Forum
Biblical Evidence for Catholicism
Jogger Mom
The Way of the Fathers
Principium Unitatis
EcumenicityBasically, I've saturated myself with Catholicism.
I'm reading Journeys Home right now, as well as The Fathers of the Church and Evangelical is Not Enough. I've been perusing the Catechism of the Catholic Church as well as this contemporary version. I've read Rome Sweet Home and By What Authority. There's more, but I'm getting tired of linking! ;)
You can see I'm really into this right now. It's exciting and scary. So many puzzle pieces are falling into place for me. It's like I'm seeing the whole picture when before there were so many unknowns. I'm seeing that Jesus' church has been sustained from the beginning. I am fast becoming a non-Protestant. I'm kind of like you right now - Catholic in my heart, but not technically so...yet.
My hubby is not currently on board with me, but seeing me so interested in it has made him feel the need to look into it to see why it interests me so much. So praise God for that. I would really love for us to be on the same page, but God's will be done. He knows best.
Thank you, Barbara, for being public about what you are going through. You're casting out seed that you may be sure will sprout into a good harvest.
Actually, I never intended to do anything other than chronicle my own spiritual journey. Then when the backlash from evangelicals took me by surprise, to do some explaining to challenge undeserved prejudice and outright lies abounding in evangelical circles about the Catholic Church.
But along the way, I've met people who have been/are on similar paths - including several formerly evangelical families at St. Francis de Sales, at least one of whom went to the same Bible Church we did before converting.
Yes, the door does swing both ways - but those who convert from evangelicalism to Catholicism seem to have a secure relationship with Jesus. Many of us are taken by surprise by where God has called us - just a year ago, I was telling a Catholic reader here that in order to find an authe tic relationship with God she would need to go to an evangelical church.
I love that God does not allow me to do too much damage before he reins me in ;)
Posted in Evangelical to Catholic, My life | Permalink
Comments
Barbara,
I moderate on Jill Stanek's site, and recently we had a 3 day discussion on the differences between the Protestant and the Catholic Church.
One of the posters there asked me this question...
Here's a new believer in Christ: how can this new believer know that the Roman Catholic church is the one true church. (The challenge: make sure this method cannot apply also to the Orthodox church.)
My response was as follows...
Anon,
For one thing the "Roman" Church came first. She wasn't called the Roman church at the time. She was called the "Christian" church. Then certain groups began to question things that had been accepted by all Christian churches up til that point.
When they continued to disagree, they broke off. This would address Hismans point that you shouldn't "change" what was established by Jesus. And at the same time it shows that contrary to Hismans take on it, the Catholic church is the one that has preserved the faith, in all of its fullness, since the beginning.
The second thing I would point to are the sacraments. Baptism is only one of the outward signs of our connection to God. There are six more and most Christian churches have dropped some or all of them.
The third thing is the apostolic succession. Peter, the first pope, laid his hands on Pope Linus who laid his hands on Pope Anacletus who laid his hands on Clement who laid his hands on Evaristus all the way to Pope Benedict the IVI.
They also laid their hands on (ordained) bishops, who then laid hands on men and ordained them priests.
Every single Catholic priest in the world today can follow his priesthood back to Peter. I'm not saying it would be easy, but the records are there.
And finally, I would have to say that the Eucharist, the Heart of our church, is the single most important reason to remain in the Catholic church. This is Christ alive again, in the flesh, in physical form, here on earth. You can't get that at a Unitarian church.
Hisman says we must put Jesus first. Well, what does he think we do in the hundreds of thousands of masses everyday around the world? Here, Japan, Egypt, France....In all these places, everyday, Jesus is physically being made present through our priests. You don't get more personal than that.
When I sit in front of Him at the adoration chapel on Sundays, I am sitting with the Man, not the idea. He is actually there. How much closer can one get? When I receive him, and consume Him...Is there any way to be closer to someone? I don't know of any. So if you want to be close to Jesus, you need to place yourself where He is, physically. And the only place where that is possible is in the Catholic Church.
I have always found it inconsistent that the Protestant church takes everything in the bible literally...The world was created in 6 days. Not 6 weeks, not 6 years, not six millenium. 6 days, because it says so in the bible. Everything is sola scriptura...until you come to the single most important words that Jesus spoke in the gospel..."This is My Body". Not this is like my body, or a symbol of my body...but "This IS my body". So serious was this statement, that many believers couldn't accept it and turned away.
Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you"
"My flesh is food indeed and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life."
And as they were eating He took bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them and said, 'Take, this is my body.' And He took a cup and when He had given thanks, He gave it to them and they drank all of it and He said to them, 'This is my blood of the New Covenant which is poured out for many.
And this is the place where protestants suddenly think that we don't need to take scripture literally...This is when they decide the words are symbolic.
And yet this is the very foundation that the Christian church was built on...something to think about.
Scott Hahn has this to say.
With this in mind, let's look at Scripture. Luke 22, verse 15, our Lord says, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you." So we are assured that the Last Supper in the Upper Room was a Passover meal...You could also say it this way: that if the Passover isn't finished until Calvary, I would suggest that Calvary is really begun in the Upper Room with the Eucharist. When does Jesus' sacrifice really begin? Well, He insists on the fact that His life is not being taken away from Him. He is laying it down. Now in the trial, in the passion, it's being taken away; but in the Upper Room, prior to all of that, Jesus lays it down. He says, "This is my body. This cup is the blood of the New Covenant."
What happens when you differentiate and separate body and blood? You signify death. When your body and your blood are separated, death begins. That's obvious, I think. So Jesus is symbolically and actually beginning the sacrifice. St. Augustine has said that Our Lord held himself in his own hands and commenced the sacrifice of the New Covenant Passover as He was transforming the old. Calvary really began in the Old Testament Passover being celebrated in the Upper Room, when the Eucharist was instituted and the Passover Eucharist of the New Covenant really isn't over.
You can read the rest here.
http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/euchc2.htm
Both churches have so much to offer. Both churches will get you where you want to go.
But only the Catholic church offers our Lord in the flesh. I think you'll be very happy here.
God Bless You on your journey,
Mary Kay
Posted by: MK | February 3, 2008 7:29 PM
Thank you so much for posting the links from this reader. Before you began posting on your journey to Catholicism, I had recently discovered The Journey Home program on EWTN and found it fascinating. After I emailed you about the program, I had to cut back on my cable costs and no longer have the EWTN channel. I have really been missing it and am very excited about these resources!
Posted by: Elissa | February 4, 2008 11:01 AM
Elissa, If you still want to hear some of the programs from EWTN I believe you can go to their website and hear past programs along with some live programming.
Posted by: Margaret | February 4, 2008 1:14 PM
My husband and kids are making the same journey, from the Episcopal church to the Catholic church. Some blogs that have helped include: Jen at Et Tu http://et-tu.blogspot.com/ and Sister Mary Martha http://asksistermarymartha.blogspot.com/. I also have liked Amy Welborn's book about prayer. Her blog is http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/. My husband wrote about his experience at his web site http://www.foothills.wjduquette.com/blog/archives/1450 .
Posted by: Jane Duquette | February 4, 2008 3:01 PM
Every single Catholic priest in the world today can follow his priesthood back to Peter. I'm not saying it would be easy, but the records are there.
Actually, this is not technically true. Just a bit of historical clarification. There are a number of apostolic sees that were set up all around the Mediterranean, North Africa, Europe, and Asia. These churches were established by various apostles (for example, Paul in Corinth, Mark in Alexandria, Andrew in Byzantium). Antioch is considered another "Petrine" see, as it was established by Peter before he established the church in Rome.
From each of these sees comes apostolic succession, not necessarily from Peter but from one of the original twelve. The various bishops and patriarchs all have direct lines of succession going back to the apostles. Some of these are in communion with Rome, and some, sadly, are not, but Rome recognizes their apostolicity and the validity of their sacraments. Other Eastern Churches are in full communion with Rome, although they can be largely self-governing and have their own hierarchies.
Where Rome differs from Eastern Orthodoxy is in the issue of authority for the Bishop of Rome. The Catholic Church believes that Christ gave authority to Peter to lead his Church, and believe that as the "rock" that the Church is founded on, hell will not prevail against it. And this authority has been passed on to his successors.
Now, 99% of the Catholics you will come upon in the US are of the "Roman" variety, mainly because the "Roman" Church (or Latin Rite) is the largest and is the one that spread throughout Central and Western Europe, and later to Africa and East Asia. And all of these priests can trace their ordination back to Peter.
I apologize for the lengthy explanation of a very small point, but I think it is also important to understand the historical foundations of Christianity.
Posted by: Mike | February 4, 2008 3:25 PM
Mike,
That was great. Thanks. I guess technically they weren't ordained by Peter, but they were ordained by the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. I probably should have said that the apostolic succession can be traced back to Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit.
I love learning new things. And that certainly qualified. I sure wish I had my own Historical Theologian to carry around in my purse to pull out when I needed him.
One of the beautiful things about our church is that no matter how deep you dig, there is still more...and more...and more...Higher up and Further in, as they say in Narnia!
Posted by: MK | February 5, 2008 7:02 AM
MK, thanks for the kind words. It is generally understood that Christian priesthood was established at the last supper, by Christ, our High Priest. "Do this in memory of me" is the line generally associated with his conferrance of Holy Orders upon the Apostles. Also "as the Father hath sent me, I also send you" (John 20:21).
Paul, in his 2nd letter to Timothy, discussed the laying on of hands. "Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of hands by the presbytery." 1 Tim 1:14. It is this chain that has remained unbroken in Catholicism and Orthodoxy since Jesus Christ. It is common for two additional bishops to assist in the ordination of a new bishop, just in case one of the bishops does not perform the Rite correctly or was invalidly ordained himself.
One of my "pet" subjects of the past couple years has been learning more about the Eastern Churches, how they work, and also about the sad divisions between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Repairing these divisions (which are largely political, not theological) has been one of the main thrusts of Benedict's papacy. God willing, someday soon the Church will "breathe with two lungs" again, as John Paul II prayed.
Posted by: Mike | February 5, 2008 12:06 PM
