March 17, 2008 12:09 AM
Divorced grandparents woes - reader input?
Readers, do any of you have experience or input on this?
Dear Barbara-Thank you again and again for your blog. I so appreciate how real you are willing to be-good and bad. I have a situation I am needing some wisdom on and wondered if you or the readers have dealt with this.
I am wondering how other families celebrate birthdays when there are divorced grandparents. My husband's parents divorced about 7 years ago and his dad has since remarried to a nice lady. My mother in law does not want to be at birthday celebrations where my father in law is invited, especially if his wife will be along. I understand this is a difficult situation for my mother in law (the ex husband and wife do not try to cause in trouble or compete for attention though) but my husband and I don't feel like each kid should get two separate celebrations. That would mean all my husband's brothers, their wives, and children attending two parties or choosing which party to attend.
So far we have always invited everyone and she usually just refuses to come and shows up some other time, sometimes trying to bring a cake and stuff (her rules). I just wondered are we in the wrong by insisting there only be one party? Can divorced grandparents be expected to be civil for a night for the sake a birthday party? We kind of feel like if we invite her and she refuses, then she has made her choice-it's not that we were trying to exclude her. I would appreciate any feedback you have on this if you have the time and reader input is welcome, but I am of course not trying to tell you that you must post me on your blog. :)
Barbara, thanks again and keep up the great writing. You are a wonderful encouragement on a sometimes very tough journey of mothering little people!
Bless you,
Alicia
Love,
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Comments
Hi Alicia,
We have a similar situation in our family. My husband's parents divorced, both remarried, both divorced again, and his dad remarried a third time. Lots of in-laws and out-laws. They all managed to behave themselves very nicely for our wedding, but that is the last time I saw any of the various factions in the same room at the same time!
It took a lot of praying and time for my husband and I to get on the same page with family issues (and we still disagree sometimes!) but... We made a decision early on, that our immediate family comes first - meaning, my husband and I, and our three kids. Oh, gee, that sounds really selfish! What I mean is that, before God, our first priority/allegiance is to our family, rather than our families-of-origin.
Practically speaking, while our kids are small, we have chosen not to travel on holidays. My parents live in the same town and my in-laws all live at least a day's drive away,so this may not seem fair, but it was what we decided. We invite one and all to birthdays and other events, but my husband's family rarely comes. The point of a birthday party is to celebrate the person having the birthday, not play "Dys-functional Family Feud"!
This was hard for my in-laws to understand and accept at first, but some good things have come from it. For one thing, we spend our holidays at home, and not on the road! And we've developed some alternate traditions and activities that have built up the relationships. Couple of examples...
The various sets of in-laws often choose to come visit us either before or after Christmas. It's actually been kind of nice to 'spread Christmas out', so to speak. The gift exchange is more personal, and they get more undivided attention from the kids.
One set of grandparents (who haven't come for a birthday party in years) have begun to invite us along with them on a summer vacation to the beach. We get separate rooms (so we can have plenty of togetherness, but still retreat to our own space!) and it has been wonderful! At a typical birthday party or holiday the kid's attention will be divided... he'll be wound up by the excitement and the sugar, and often focused on all the fun gifts. On vacation everyone can relax and the grandparents and grandkids get to know each other better.
Hope that helps,
Julie
Posted by: Julie | March 17, 2008 1:16 AM
We had this same situation arise at the outset of our marriage. Neither of my husband's parents would attend the wedding (several states away) if the other was invited. My husband's feelings at the time led us to invite his mom and exclude his dad. We felt badly about this afterward, though, and thereafter invited both, fully disclosing the dual invitation. Both came to the baptism of our first child, and it actually went over quite smoothly. Or so it seemed to us; it might not have been so smooth from their perspectives, because after that, only one or the other showed up. But they worked it out between themselves.
We felt that we were honoring their sensibilities by informing each of the other's invitation and RSVP, but beyond this courtesy, it was their business, not ours -- and certainly not our children's -- whether they thought they could co-exist in the same space for a special occasion.
The stickiness didn't finally dissolve, though, until we moved 500 miles away from both of them. As our children grew in number, and the divorced grandparents grew in age, the desire for a relationship with the grandkids began to outweigh their desire to avoid each other.
Posted by: Kalynne Pudner | March 17, 2008 1:26 AM
This is probably going to sound harsh. I speak from experience here. I have been there, done that, and it's not been easy.
Both my parents, and my husbands parents are divorced. We made it crystal clear when we started having children, that petty disagreements between the split parents would not be tolerated by us. I don't much care if they don't get along. I don't care if they don't want to be around one another. I don't care about them getting remarried and whatnot.
Here is what I care about:
My children growing up knowing that all their grandparents love them. My children (or yours) should not have to deal with the baggage that comes with divorced grandparents. That is not their job.
If I were you, I would simply state that there will be one birthday party. All the grandparents will be invited. They can choose to come and act like adults who all love their grandkids, or they can choose to miss out on the celebration and act petty. But they can choose.I think you would be doing the right thing by having only one party. Don't waver and be firm in your decision, not catering to that kind of drama is what's best for your littles.
Good luck with your pickle! I hope your MIL makes the choice to be a grownup for the sake of her precious grandbabies.
SandyPosted by: Sandy | March 17, 2008 8:23 AM
My parents' divorce and repercussions would have been appropriate for the Jerry Springer show. My now-step-mom was my babysitter and my dad left us for her when I was 10.
Initially, there was a long period of time when my mom would try to insist that my dad not include his then-girlfriend at activities for me. However, one of the classiest things my mom has ever done was continue to be civil to my step-mom over the years. It reflects much better on her to have "stepped up" and been the grownup in the situation.
And, that being said...two weeks ago, my daughter had her 4 yr birthday while I also celebrated my 40th. And, my parents and their spouses were all there...while not necessarily enthusiastic (LOL), they handled themselves class-ily regardless.
Unless there is a history of abuse or similar, I feel like they should be able to be civil for an hour or two to celebrate family milestones.
Posted by: Beth/Mom2TwoVikings | March 17, 2008 8:23 AM
You have to do what is best for your kids. I think the mother-in-law's practice of coming over at a different time with a cake is perfectly fine. I don't see that as a big problem.
If the father-in-law did leave the mother-in-law after an affair (which is all too common and this scenario seems to show that), then I would just encourage that couple to be very gentle with the mother-in-law and to put boundaries around the father-in-law. I would say that perhaps she should be invited and he shouldn't.
I don't mean to be judgmental, but I don't think people should get off scot free after wrecking a marriage and the family for decades afterwards. Perhaps it was more complicated than that, but asking the father-in-law to wait and come at another time would also be perfectly right. You don't have to have the whole party again, but he could come for a small celebration later. That's not that big a deal.
I know in our family there have been divorces where the fault is very one-sided (I know it's never entirely one-sided, but usually there is one who instigated it), and I think in instigating the divorce that person also tacitly agreed to be considered last for all future family occasions. If the father-in-law fits this bill in this case, then so be it.
I hope that isn't harsh!
Posted by: Sheila Gregoire | March 17, 2008 8:41 AM
Your response sounds a lot like what I would do in your situation. We have a similar situation in our family -- my in-laws are also divorced -- but because they live far away, it is not an issue as frequently. We've always avoided having them staying in our house at the same time, and rotate the major holidays (Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc.) among my parents, my MIL, and my FIL. For us, that's worked pretty well, and everyone's been fairly understanding. We once had Christmas at my MIL's house, with my FIL living nearby; on that occasion, we had Christmas morning at my MIL's house, and then went to FIL's house for an hour or two that afternoon to have presents there; we then went back to MIL's house for Christmas dinner. I see nothing wrong with having a main celebration, and then a separate smaller one with the grandparent who missed the major one. The only change I'd likely make would be to think about having a large enough cake at the main party that you can share leftovers with your MIL, or at least save her a slice, but that's mostly because I wouldn't want to have to eat two cakes; if she's happier providing a second cake, I'd probably let her.
Just my take on it; hope this helps.
Newt
Posted by: Newt Sherwin | March 17, 2008 9:41 AM
My parents were divorced after 26 years of marriage. There were plenty of hurting feelings and it was devastating to our family. My first born was 6 months old at the time. My parents came to my son's birthday party and acted very civil for the sake of our family. Your mother in law is putting her feelings above those of the grandchild. How sad if the children never have any memories of grandma at any parties. Grandma should put aside her feelings for ex-husband and spouse for a few hours and focus only on enjoying her grandchild and her extended family. It may require some "acting skills" to not be bothered by the ex and his wife, but it will get easier with time.I was divorced from my son's father 13 years ago; so I have shared many events with ex-spouse as well. Praying for your family.
Posted by: Karen | March 17, 2008 11:35 AM
Oh Alicia! Your story is a carbon copy of mine!!!! I thought I was the only one going thru struggles like this one (such naive thought, since the rate of divorce is so high).
The difference here is that my in-laws have been divorced for about 27 years!!! And they still put us thru hoops like the one you describe. My husband grew up like that, with two birthdays, two Thanksgivings, two Christmases...you get the picture. When we got married, we had to make sure the ushers sat his family in one side of the Church and her family in the other side of the room....and believe me, I have a ton of similar stories.
I guess one very important question here is how does your husband feel about the whole situation? These are his parents after all, so be sensitive of what he really wants. My husband had been fed up with the whole thing for most of his life, so when I mentioned I didn't like the "who-is-coming?-and-if-she/he-is-coming-I'm-not-coming" type of rambling he jumped right on board and told me he didn't want that for our kids either; he said he lived his whole life like that and that he didn't want our kids to go thru that at all.
So, with that in mind (and after a few years of ruined parties because of their behavior)we told them that we were not having two parties (including no cake whenever grandma/grandpa decided to show up by themselves after/before the party); we told them they would both be invited, and that it was up the them to decide if they wanted to come or not, but that we did not wanted to hear the "if-she/he-is-coming-I'm-not-coming" rambling. We told them we would not be offended whatsoever if they decided not to show up, but we asked them to realize that they would be missing out on the kids' life because of their attitude.
They were both very upset at my husband at first, or, as my MIL told him "very hurt at his comments"; but we stood by our decision and, somehow they managed to gather enough strength to "endure" each others presence for a couple of hours; we try to have our party at an open place, where there is plenty of room for them to pick their own corner and not have to sit right next to each other; still, sometimes she only stays for an hour, or he spends the whole time finding an excuse to go to his car or to "go for a little walk" by the sidewalk. But I do appreciate the effort they both put forth for the sake of the kids.
And sometimes they are not as strong and they don't show up; I don't hold that against them, I'm just thankful I don't have to deal with the letany of all the reasons why they should be spared the insult of being in the same place at the same time with each other.
I think at the very bottom of the situation, there is a lot of selfishness. The are babyboomers "and-proud-of-it" (as they both have expressed before) so they feel entitled to having things their own way; they think it is their right to demand that everyone accomodate their wishes, without regards for the emotional rollercoaster they put us thru. I have even been told that "I am God's daughter and He wants me to be happy.....and this situation makes me very unhappy".
I now have three boys and we still have to maintain an eye open for what they are going to throw at us next; their attitudes include birthdays, funerals, weddings...whatever; if the situation requires both of them to be present, then that is a problem and the whole pushing and pulling act starts.
But enough about us!
What I suggest is that you talk to your husband and listen to what he has to say; be sensitive to what he really wants. If he is ok with his mom missing the party and just come over some other time, then let it be; do not let, I REPEAT, do not let this situation come between the two of you. (I made that mistake, believe me, is not worth it).
But if he is not ok, I think it is perfectly ok to expect the grandparents to be civil, put their differences aside for a couple hours, and to do whatever it takes to make sure their grandkids have a blast at their birthday parties, without any negativity from the "elders" of the family.
My husband also talked to his siblings and found out they were also fed up with dealing with two different celebrations, so the three of them decided to form a united front, and now all of us have the same rule: just one party, both are invited, the rest is up them.
I wish I could tell you that my story had a happy ending, but so far it is still a struggle; so you need to know it is not going to be a smooth road ahead, but I think our kids deserve protection from negative attitudes; we don't expect them to be friends, but we do expect them to leave their issues away from our kids.
We'll see how it all pans out.
I wish you the best! And please don't forget to follow your husbands lead, even if he has a very different opinion than yours; remember, these are his parents you are dealing with, so ask yourself, if it were your parents, how would you handle the situation (yes, I know, our parents would never do such things....or would they?); don't let the situation come between the two of you, lest you end up in the same situation as your in-laws. And believe me, wrong attitudes, when left unchecked, have that much potential.
Posted by: LadyLovas | March 17, 2008 12:40 PM
Personally I believe that the onus for dealing with post-divorce issues lies solely on those who chose to divorce. Children, grandchildren, and other members of the family should not have to deal with it.
While my parents are divorced, my father is no longer with us, so I thankfully don't have to deal with that. But I do have to deal with issues related to my husband's first wife, and I simply refuse for my children (meaning both my biological and step-children) to be put in the middle of it. (And you'd be surprised at who takes it upon themselves to create drama over a divorce and remarriage that has nothing to do with them. I simply don't put up with it.)
BTW, I don't agree with assuming that the husband was the one who had an affair and caused the divorce. In this day and age, women are more likely to have an affair and more likely to initiate divorce.
As for the MIL coming over with a cake after the actual party, I would probably not be happy about that. That's the type of thing my mother tries to do -- if she isn't happy with the circumstances that I have arranged, she tries to create her own. If she refuses to attend the party you are throwing, she shouldn't be allowed to surprise you with a little mini-party just for her.
Posted by: Michelle Potter | March 17, 2008 2:01 PM
Alicia,
This is kind of a "PS" to what a lot of us seem to be saying. =0)
One way to manage a lot of the nonsense is to plan ahead (far ahead!) and be the hostess. When things are happening at your house, you call the shots. Your house, your event, your rules.
Yeah, I admit, I may be a bit of a control-freak at times, but that was the advice given to me by those older and wiser than I. And I can say, after almost 14 years of marriage, it has been very helpful, and reinforces my husband in his role as head of this family. (He has needed a lot of bolstering to stand up to his, at times.)
This has also headed off at lot of petty maneuvering at the pass. For example, one family faction would inevitably arrive late for gatherings involving a meal... hours late. In their world everyone had to wait, and make a fuss. In our world, we all go ahead and eat at the time we had planned, save them some left-overs, and welcome them to a party already in progress. (A party at which - gasp! - they are not the main attraction!)
I've learned some new 'tricks' from the other contributors too... hope this helps you.
Julie
Posted by: Julie | March 17, 2008 2:23 PM
I would have my husband have a chat with his mom, politely telling her that she needs to grow up. No, it is NOT too much to ask for her to be civil for ONE birthday celebration. What does she intend to do whenever weddings and other "once in a lifetime" things begin to occur?
Posted by: Keer | March 17, 2008 5:01 PM
I too am in similar circumstances. My MIL will not speak to my mother, and my parents haven't seen each other or spoken since the last court date finalizing their divorce in 1986.
Fortunately, we only live close to my MIL, so as a matter of course she is included in many things my parents are not. When my dad and stepmother are in town, my MIL is welcome to come over and does occasionally, although she usually keeps her distance, not out of any bad feeling, but just because she knows they see our kids so rarely. When my mom is in town, my MIL hides. My mom tried to stop my wedding and one of her tactics was calling my MIL and telling her she had raised an evil, demon-possessed child (subtle woman, my mom). Consequently, MIL does not even want to glimpse my mom even to this day.
For special occasions, we usually invite my husband's family and that's it. We may include my dad and step-mom, but since my mom refuses to get along with any of them, we usually don't invite her out of respect for the others. Unfortunately, my mom is at fault for most of the rifts in our family, and causes most of the bad feelings among everyone else (my husband just tolerates her, but even he doesn't like her). She has made her bed, and she now lies in it.
Posted by: Tari | March 18, 2008 7:27 PM
Thanks to everyone for sharing. I hate the feeling of dread over upcoming celebrations and this has encouraged me.
Alicia
Posted by: Alicia | March 20, 2008 9:27 PM
As a grandchild of divorced grandparents, I would definitely agree with everyone who has said that you should just have the one party and tell them to be civil.
I've never known what it's like to have a set of grandparents at a birthday as my dad's mother died when my dad was 27 (before he'd even met my mum!) and my mum's parents divorced when she was 16.
Consequently neither my mum or her sister were able to be given away at their weddings by their father because he and my nana refused to be in the same building. And my brother and I have never experienced having them both at a birthday.
The situation has improved over the last 3 years as my mum, auntie and uncle decided it was childish of their parents to keep acting this way (after 33 years of being divorced!!) and so when my uncle got married they were told that both were invited. Since then we've had both come to 2 Christmas celebrations (although we made sure they didn't sit in direct eye-line around the table and that certain topics of conversation were avoided to make sure there were no arguments). It's made the family feel much more together since they've been able to put some of their differences aside and just deal with being together for a few hours each year. They don't usually say anything more than 'hello' but that's up to them.
I can safely say that not having both grandparents at events does make a difference, although I didn't realise it until I came to college and discovered friends who had grandparents who were very involved in their lives. I realised that I'd missed out by not having those experiences.
Posted by: Alison | April 15, 2008 9:12 AM
Its hard, because I sympathize with so many of you. My husband's parents just finalized their divorce. My MIL basically flaked-out on life, left my FIL for someone she worked with. And all the while, when I was still a full-time working mom (before we came to our senses!) my MIL watched my 6 mo old son for one day a week for me. Come to find out, once the separation was in full-swing, my FIL finding out the affair impending, my husband and I found out that our son was being taken on day trips with his Grandma, whom we trusted implicitly, to see her boyfriend.
Talk about broken trust. The last thing any parent wants to dream about is broken implicit trust. My husband and I are so thankful that our son was way too young to know what was going on, or gosh knows where-he-was. However, that relationship, due to behavioral patterns and lies, my husband and I thought it to be best to end any ties with his mother. We have always been in utter agreement. She found no fault in never having disclosed taking our son places and taking him around people we don't know. Therefore, with other issues in her patterns, moving out and never telling anyone where she moved to, except to call from untraceable phone numbers...well, there is some of the idea.
I am not upset that my son won't have a relationship with his paternal grandmother. Unfortunately, my FIL, his paternal grandfather, is internet dating random women, of whom, he thinks are plenty acceptable to bring around our now 2 year old son.
My husband and I know nothing of these people. As well, he is still dealing with the divorce and the unexpectedness of the actions taken by his mother. However, is it wrong that we don't allow one-on-one time between our son and his grandfather? (The grandmother is out of the question. She won't even contact us, much less tell anyone where she is living.) However, my FIL is on his 8th girlfriend in 6 months and this pattern of behavior is obviously out of desperation, not because my FIL is ready to move on. Therefore, is it more acceptable, until such time he settles down, to keep his grandparenting visits to my husband and I being around?
The greatest thing is, I don't generally parlay in telling my husband how he should handle his family, because, in all honesty, they just weren't the types I expected to behave like this. But, we have, every step of the way, agreed on every level with regard to our children.
However, it is imperative that in the event both sides are prevalent in our son's life and our soon-to-be second son, that both are willing to put their differences aside for the while, to not forsake the needs of the grandchild.
Posted by: Amy | April 24, 2008 1:51 PM
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