November 6, 2008 7:33 AM
Churches and guilt - midweek service
Hi Barbara!
I know you won't get to this until after the election but I wanted to ask you a question. My husband and I are not sure if the church we are currently in is healthy. Basically, and I'm being as vague as possible here, there is a mid-week service that has suddenly become mandatory. If you don't attend, you are either lazy or carnal. My husband and I have listened to many sermons about this midweek service, and we have asked God to show us if we need to attend. So far, we just don't see that it is a command to attend this type of service. We know we are not to forsake the assembling of the saints, but we don't feel like we are doing this by not attending. It's not that we disagree with the service - it's a good thing. The service is more focused on prayer than the Sunday morning service. Prayer is good. We are called to pray. We just don't see it in scripture the way he sees it. We have tried, it would be easier that way! We just refuse to go just because he wants us to go. We want to go because God says to do it!
Another thing that our church is famous for is filling up your schedule so that more than half of the days of the month taken up with church activities. If we attended everything we are supposed to attend, we would be up there at least half of the month. That is a rough estimate gotten by quickly brainstorming. It could be for some members as much as 3/4 of the month.
Does this sound like spiritual abuse to you? Are we being too sensitive? We don't want to leave our church. We were fine quietly disagreeing about the importance of this mid-week service. However, it has become obvious lately that we may not be welcome to stay if we don't attend. My husband is a part of the praise band and we are pretty sure that this will be required of him since he is viewed as holding a leadership position. Which by the way, we never really viewed it that way, he is just using the gifts God gave him.
We don't want to leave, we love our church and the people in it. However, it just seems like the decision may be made for us. And, I have to admit, we are worried that they are going to view us as carnal by leaving.
I would really be interested to hear your perspective on our situation.
Thank you for your time!
Yes, frankly, it does sound like it's developing some unhealthy tendencies.
Read my experience at Legalism and Christian Cults. You could also check out any of the books recommended at Recovering from Spiritual Abuse under Barbara's Picks. Not that I think what you have described is spiritual abuse per se, but when a church starts controlling the lives of its members through even the most subtle manipulation, it's time to ask questions.
Dr. Ron Enroth, author of several books on spiritual abuse has provided some guidelines for believers:
Hallmarks of a Healthy Church
1) Stresses authority of Scripture, not special revelations2) Leads by strong and gentle example, gentle encouragement
3) Teaches Godly relationship with larger society
4) Keeps the focus on Jesus, not on the leader
5) Maintains high standards of purity
6) No additional requirements for salvation
7) Allows members to hear from God for themselves
8) Teaches biblical principles allowing individuals to grow and make decisions for themselves
9) Fosters relationships with the larger community that are more than self-serving.
I would also add that you can tell a healthy church by how the people treat those who have left. When you say you are worried that you will be judged as carnal, that strikes me as indicative of a cultlike church. Judging other Christians who attend other churches as somehow less than is just plain wrong. How presumptuous to judge the heart of another believer! The Bible has some especially condemning words about spiritual pride - personally, I'd rather be guilty of many other sins than to presume in a way that displeases my Heavenly Father.
My experience in the broad spectrum of evangelical churches is that a church such as you've described is often very attractive as it has drawn together the most righteous believers - who are all on the same page about many issues and extra-biblical mandates. The enthusiasm and energy are very compelling.
The downside is that despite all the scriptural warnings and their own best intentions, people in these churches often begin to feel spiritually superior based on their "works." Ironically sometimes the greatest works/grace imbalance is most pronounced in churches which accuse Catholics of - you guessed it! - a "works mentaility."
How could we forget that Christ came to set the captives free? That his harshest criticism was for those who bound people with extra rules and requirements?
In addition, as I wrote in Reaching the Left from the Right many years ago, I think it's tragic that so many Christian churches keep their congregations bound up with church activities when we should be on school boards, volunteering at hospitals, etc. What a waste when our churches turn inwards rather than putting service to our communities and our fellow man first.
"Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words."~St. Francis of Assisi~
I think some readers here might like to weigh in on this subject.
Posted in Spiritual abuse | Permalink
Comments
Hmmm...if attendance is mandatory then yes I'd think it was a problem. But, if you are at a church that's trying to grow and is trying to provide diverse activities to large range of people then maybe not.
I'm at my church willingly (LOL) for Tuesday Night Ladies Night, Wednesday night midweek Bible study, praise and worship practice, along with 2 services on Sunday! LOL So, I'm hardly one to ask!
Posted by: Beth/Mom2TwoVikings | November 6, 2008 9:30 AM
Excellent response to a touchy subject Barbara. I am going to post a link to this today because I often get these same kinds of email questions.
Thank you,
Sue
Posted by: Praise and Coffee | November 6, 2008 9:38 AM
Barbara - We're struggling with our church situation as well, so this was especially timely for me this morning. Thanks for sharing it.
We've been members at a very small church (larest Sunday morning attendance ever was about 60, we're running about 25 now) for a long time. We love the people, my children have literally been born into this church and many of the people feel like grandparents to them. But my husband (who teaches) really has some theological differences with the denomination's teaching and we both feel like there is too much emphasis on showing up and "growing the church" (as opposed to service and reaching out to unbelievers) - if that makes sense. We would be content to disagree on this one point and look for ways to serve in the community except that there is so much pressure to participate in (and even lead) everything. We're literally the only regular attenders with children so if we're not there, they act as if we're letting down the team...
Ugh. Sorry to tie up your comment box with all this. I haven't felt comfortable writing about this or sharing with others IRL. Thanks for letting me get it off my chest:)
Posted by: Shannon M | November 6, 2008 10:11 AM
I don't know if you have kids, but this is a VERY unhealthy place for them (and you) to be if spiritual abuse is indeed taking place. I was just telling my husband a story last night about an experience I had while growing up in church and was remembering how much of my childhood was literally spent INSIDE the church walls. We met between 4 and 6 times a week - various meetings, etc. Maybe it was because my parents were in leadership but it always seemed like everyone else was there too. Also, we attended the private school there so the only people we knew or interacted with were people from church and people from school - the same 100 or so people for twenty years. There was something about keeping everyone that wrapped up with church activities that said two things: 1) we're too righteous to be rubbing elbows with anyone not members in our church and here five times a week and/or 2) the world is an evil place and we need to hide out here where we are safe (such a lie as to the safety aspect!! As a side note, my sisters and I were sexually abused in that church while all the late night meetings happened and my parents were busy somewhere in the building. NOT saying that will happen in your church but as an example to how it's a complete fallacy that any one PLACE will keep you or your family 100% safe from harm)
I've been in counseling for the past six months with a wonderful Christian counselor who is working to help me see God from a completely different perspective. I feel like one of those kids being raised in radical Mormon compounds and having to step away from the idea of who I was taught God is has been very difficult but very purposeful. My two younger sisters that grew up with me in this church are far from God. We were raised INSIDE that church and if it did anything, it drove us from the heart of God. This may not be your church. But if you sense after much praying and seeking God in this that the church you attend is putting themselves in a higher place of authority than God's voice in your life or they might be headed in this direction...you're not imagining it...it's spiritual abuse.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 6, 2008 11:18 AM
to this dear woman...........get on your knees and ask God what to do because it sounds as if this church is indeed abusive. i have seen this over and over at several churches we have attended over the past 15 years. fill up a person's schedule and you have essentially controlled them without them realizing how trapped they are. it all sounds good, bible studies, prayer groups, worship practice, children's drama groups, etc.......but i know for myself i was "doing" a lot of things for the Lord but so far from being in His will it wasn't funny. barbara, you are so right.......Christians need to be ministering all over the place.....soup kitchens, senior citizen centers, hospitals, day cares, public schools, pregnancy clinics...the list goes on and on. too many churches are so ingrown and too wrapped up in their own pet theology. look at the patricarchy movement.......EVERY single one that i know personally in that movement has NO evangelism. sorry to rant. this issue is pretty near to my heart.
julie
Posted by: julie | November 6, 2008 11:31 AM
There is no scriptural mandate to attend on any day other than for public worship on the Lord's day.
There's no mandate to attend any type of midweek service, no matter what your pastor says. We have a midweek prayer meeting but there's no requirement to attend.
I'd go with the others and suggest you look for a church with more balanced teaching.
Posted by: Sheena | November 6, 2008 12:59 PM
I've been reading a book on protecting children recently. The book focuses on violent crimes, sexual abuse, etc., but one of the author's recurring themes is: Trust your intuition. Even if you can't put your finger on what it is that is wrong with a person or a situation, trust your intuition. Often, your intuition will pick up on something that you can't logically justify yet, and you're far better off safe than sorry.
The fact that you're asking the question means that something has triggered your intuition that the church is becoming abusive. You have a theological disagreement with them over mid-week services; you don't think that they will be able to have a civil and respectful discussion on this, nor does it look like an "agree to disagree" attitude will work. That's more than enough evidence right there to justify looking elsewhere. But even just the intuitive "something's not right here" feeling would be enough to justify being very cautious, withholding trust, and testing everything the leadership says carefully against Scripture. (And watch, too, what's being taught to your children; if there are adults discussing this situation with your children instead of going directly to you with it, that's a whole other type of inappropriate.)
Newt
Posted by: Newt Sherwin | November 6, 2008 2:32 PM
My two cents...I have attended a Reformed Baptist Church for about 12 years, having been led to leave the unbiblical church I had been "raised" in.
Our church constitution, which only applies to church members, states that "we will attend all the stated meetings of the church unless otherwise hindered." (Heb 10:25) We are not a program oriented church so that means prayer meeting on Wed., Sunday morning and afternoon services. We have other outside ministries where members can be involved but no other church meetings during the month. Our pastor would see it as a burden to the congregation to require them to attend multiple weekly or monthly meetings.
We hold fast to the fourth commandment, "honor the Sabbath day to keep it holy" and believe it to be a sin to spend your Sunday at the mall, for example, vs. church. The prayer meeting is not held to this same standard, as Scripture does not require it.
(An interesting side note that during our prayer meeting last night, our pastor had this to say about Sunday worship - note this is specific to Sunday, not Wed. - and those would needlessly skip church, "The Christian Sabbath means next to nothing to them. They need no Scriptural proof to continue in their sins but they demand an elaborate case from those who exhort them to basic Christian duties. Even when they hear the solemn prescriptions of the Ten Commandments, that sobering summary of God's moral law, it is dismissed as legalism that a Christian should actually obey.") Just interesting that this was our study last night...
Back to the Wed. point...To our members, our pastor would have a concern if they never attended the prayer meeting or had an adverse reaction to attending. However, there are times when a member may not be able to attend. For example, when when had our second baby getting to prayer meeting was very difficult because of when he went to sleep. I did not attend the Wed. meeting for a few months and received no rebuke from our pastor. I have friends who work on Wed. night and can't make it, this is acceptable and understandable. But to miss simply because one doesn't want to go begs the question, "why not?"
Do we not want to be with other Christians? There is a profound joy of being connected to a group of believers, where we can pray for and encourage one another. If we really desire spiritual fellowship we would seize the opportunity to enjoy it as an active and committed member of a local church.
In summary, I would advice that it would be for your spiritual benefit and the benefit of your brethren to attend a mid-week prayer service, if possible. It would, however, be impossible for me to offer advice on the health of your church or whether or not you should leave since we all lack enough details, presented from both sides, to make that determination. This is a great topic Barbara - thanks for posting and allowing us to discuss!
I'll leave you with a kind of long (goodness, like this isn't long enough already!) quote from Charles Bridges, "As the believer finds trouble from the world, he prays that he may find help from the Lord's people. The very sight of our Father's family is cheering. It brings not only fellowship but help. In the apostolic church the members "did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart; praising God, and having favor with all people" (Acts 2:46-27) Then the church was a little heaven and they could say to each other "behold, how good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!" Even their neighbors were awed and constrained into the confession, "see how these Christians love one another!" The communion of saints was the peculiar feature of primitive Christianity, and ever since has formed an article of her faith; in proportion as we return to the primitive standard, we shall hold closer fellowship with each other as "members of one body" (1 Cor. 12:27), "considering one another, to provoke unto love and to good works." (Heb. 10:24)
I pray that you will be encouraged and provoked to further study and prayer on this topic and may God be pleased to lead you and your family in the right path.
(Umm...I think this was more like my 25 cents, vs. two! LOL!)
Posted by: Kim | November 6, 2008 3:09 PM
Thank you all for your replies. I will definitely take each one into consideration. Kim, I especially appreciate your 25 cents! :D
I would just like to add that there are many, many wonderful things about our church. Otherwise we would just leave. I have a feeling that the pastor may not know that it feels like manipulation and maybe he needs to learn to let the Holy Spirit convict us instead of him trying to do it? Does that make sense? It's a new church started by another church and this is this pastor's first time as a senior pastor. And maybe my husband and I need to suck it up and talk to the pastor and let him have the chance to hear us out instead of assuming how he will respond!
He really is a wonderful pastor, a true servant. We just don't always agree with his logic and the way he sees scripture.
I think God gave him a clear direction for this church, and I think sometimes when God leads people to do something they start to think that it is unbiblical for other people to not do it. God told him to start a mid-week prayer service, and that's great. So far, and we have asked, God has not told us that we need to attend. We already feel maxed out and both of us are introverts - too many activities wipe us out emotionally and physically.
Thank you all for your replies. It could be that since we are not going to follow him as he follows Christ it may just be time to move on. Or maybe God is going to tell us that we need to go the service and that will be it! We are praying and expecting God to lead us.
Thanks again - oh, and I welcome more comments if you have them!
Posted by: Original Poster | November 6, 2008 4:42 PM
Seems to me as if this problem is international. Generally, in Australia, one goes to church on one's own accord, for whatever reason. One attends services (or not) in the same way. No disrespect to American pastors, but it seems that when they (Americans) lead over here, Australians feel very pressured to 'abide'. It's different to the American way. Our Aussie culture is just - well - different.
It also seems that this same pressure is prevailent amongst the individual churches in the US. Different towns, different cities have different people and different ways about them. Sometimes, some families simply cannot attend so many services / meetings due to all manner of circumstances INDIGENOUS to them (and on a larger scale and to support my point above - indegenous to their country / city / town).
To strongly suggest / force / convince / urge / offer judgements etc etc when people cannot or are not led to attend services is definitely wading in troubled waters.
This example could be just one tiny example of how a church can change from spiritual to carnally led.
Love,
The Machinist's wife
Posted by: Machinist's Wife | November 6, 2008 8:30 PM
My husband and I were in a similar church several years ago. There was a lot of pressure on people to attend the mid-week service, monthly caregroup meetings, etc. It was a small church and at the time we were childless and felt like we had to pick up the ball if others didn't. Finally, all of our service (we were a major part of the lay leadership)ended up damaging our marriage but thankfully not destroying it. A book you may want to consider reading is Boundaries by Henry Cloud. It gives biblical principles for establishing healthy boundaries with others even when good things (like mid-week attendance) are at stake.
Posted by: Joyce | November 6, 2008 9:54 PM
Look up the Shepherding movement.
Posted by: Angela | November 6, 2008 10:07 PM
I have read a bit about the shepherding movement, and goodness, that fits our church exactly! I'm not sure what to make of it, but thank you Angela for the suggestion to look into it.
Posted by: Original Poster | November 7, 2008 12:19 PM
Boy, choices are hard to make at times!! Although, I do believe you may have to make a choice on the leadership you will follow. I don't always agree with my pastor but am certain that he is the leader God has in place for this church. Therefore, I need to get on board or get off. Sometimes it's not about feelings or our sacrifice (to come to church other than Sunday AM) but rather, obedience. I'm not talking about blind obedience either. If you know he's the God's man for the church and you know this is the church for you, then It is simply a matter of obedience. We have to put our 'selves' aside and 'just do it'(I sound like a commercial). You will find that if you do, you will be content. If it feels like you're grappling too much. You may have to do some 'soul searching' (examining your self in God's Light, it's so hard to do sometimes). When you can get to the foundation of things, it seems to help in our decision-making processes. I have no doubt you will make the right choice. They're just difficult to make sometimes. God bless you.
Michele
Posted by: Michele | December 5, 2008 11:08 AM
I googled, midweek bible study, and I think you answered the question I had for that, but after reading this you raised another question.
How do you feel about your congregation keeping attendance on each and every individual, for sunday morning bible class, and wednesday night bible class. They either list you as Sick, Work, or Misc., and if you don't go they want to know, why why why.
Is this scriptual? They make you feel like if you don't go your doing something wrong, and that you should always be there no matter what. Any ideas or opinions? Thanks
Posted by: B | December 18, 2008 3:39 PM
