March 18, 2009 8:48 AM
Are Catholics Christians?
From Shaun Groves's blog SCHLOG:03.17.09 FA(S)Q: What About Them Catholics?
This is the first of what will almost certainly be a series of posts I'm calling Frequently Asked (Strange) Questions. The first question is usually asked something like this: "So what's your position on Catholics? Do you think they're Christians?"
First off, we Protestants (supposedly) don't have a pope - one guy who tells us definitely what God's position is on this or that. So it's ironic when when Protestants ask me, as if I'm the pope, what my position is on this or that.
Second, here's the answer I always give to this frequently asked (strange) question: I have as much certainty about whether a Catholic is a Christian as I do about whether a Baptist, Methodist or Lutheran is a Christian. Not much.
I think if the rapture were to happen at 10:30 Sunday morning there would be quite a few people left in the seats of every kind of church and there would be many ascending to heaven directly from their beds and fishing boats. And if I'm right this will tick off some of us Protestants but in the end we're not God. We don't get to choose, thankfully, who's in and who's out. We're not up to the job. We lack eyes that can search the depths of the soul in order to make such an everlasting determination. We have a difficult time searching our own soul don't we?
Third, behind this answer is a lot of hurt. I have an aunt who converted to Catholicism many years ago and as a child I witnessed the way she was treated by Protestants for it, as if she'd turned her back on God when in reality she'd simply left the Baptist church. She was still - as far as I could tell - every bit as in love with Jesus as she'd always been. She was still every bit as generous toward me as she'd always been. Unable to see her soul, to know the trajectory of her every desire, unable to read the Lamb's book of Life from way down here, it puzzles me - no, it pisses me off - that she was treated as one of Lucifer's angels cast down from heaven after rebelling against God. So that's my bias. There it is. And you should weigh that when you read my answer.
Lastly, I have a question for those who ask me about Catholics - and there are a lot of you. Why do you ask? I think you ask because there are elements of Catholic theology that don't line up with your Protestant theology. If that's the case, then maybe we need to be reminded more often about how this whole salvation thing works. I think you and I, while we say we're "saved by grace", behave sometimes as if we're saved by theology. Regardless of what church we belong to, this isn't very Jesus-y of us.
Jesus - who was a Jew and neither Protestant nor Catholic - taught that all of scripture could be summed up or interpreted with one singular command to love God and love each other. It's Jesus who will sort us all out in the end, dividing the sheep from the goats, not on the basis of our theology but our love: Potent faith coming out of us as love.
But that's ambiguous isn't it? It's too squishy of a standard. It's too hard to determine who's "in" and who's "out" using that ruler, huh? I know. Jesus is annoying like that. No checklist I can tick off. No four spiritual laws announced at the feeding of the five thousand. Jesus doesn't offer a surefire ritual or program we can work through in order to inherit His eternal life. That sure would make judging each other a lot easier don'tcha think? I think all of us - Protestants and Catholics - can agree on that.
There is some great discussion going on in the comments - go here to see or contribute. Here is the comment I posted:
Shaun -
You and I talked about this last year - and I want to say today from the bottom of my heart, thank you for writing this. I was an Evangelical who thought no one could possibly find Jesus in the Catholic Church - and was very free with my advice - until 18 months ago when I felt led to return to the church I was baptized in as a baby but never practiced. All the myths I'd heard about Catholics not reading the Bible were shattered. All the doubts I had were answered. I felt led to stay.
The persecution I went through from (some) evangelicals took me by surprise as many knew my heart and my life and my level of obedience. There were many ugly moments - including with my pastor. Even today I received an email from a woman who told me that I had "followed the tares."
My pro-life work and reporting (for Focus on the Family) has taken me into many places where evangelicals and Catholics work together against our true enemy. It breaks my heart that instead of joining arms and creating a solid godly front in the face of a degenerate world, that small minds persist in these ridiculous games of judgment. Timothy 2:19 tells us that the Lord knows who are His. That should be enough to enable us to get on with the work He has for us - to use use our energies for His glory and to not allow ourselves to be distracted by the enemy.
I will say that it is mostly on the provincial level that the prejudice exists. In the organizations that we respect and admire, Catholics do work side by side with evangelicals, though we are regarded as enigmas.
God seems to be calling a fair number of evangelicals into the Catholic Church - and has been for some years. While the door swings both ways, usually disaffected Catholics leave because they are somehow able to find a relationship with Jesus outside the Catholic Church that they were unable to find in it. The Evangelicals I've met who've become Catholic have felt called there despite their previous prejudice and in the midst of a full relationship with Jesus.
With the political situation we find ourselves in today, I believe we may be seeing the battle lines drawn with the Catholic Church. That is, after all, where gays go to protest the biblical position. That is the denomination that our new president has repeatedly dissed (no priest at the Inauguration) and which has already this year faced an assault on its autonomy (Connecticut). This may be why we have been called there.
I don't know. I do know that on my Christian journey since March 21, 1987, God has taken every rigid and legalistic boundary I have set, every judgment I have made of others, and challenged it and humbled me.
I thank God that He has done so. I am a better person for it.
Thanks Shaun for this post - it has been like healing balm. I will link from my blog.
Posted on 03/17 at 08:34 PM
Posted in Catholicism, Church Issues, Religion | Permalink
Comments
I am glad to read this young man's blog. And also glad to read your response. I've had one conversation via email for 3/4 of a year with a former friend of mine over the teachings of the Catholic Church. She was convinced that I was no longer totally in love with Christ but with the Church although she admitted that she never knew a Catholic who knew her Bible so well. (Believe me. I had lots of help.) She simply refused to believe that I had a deep love for God. Didn't matter what I said. I was totally "taken in" by the Catholic Church.
My family, on the other hand, was fine with it. Well, they asked me a couple of questions but never gave me heartache over it. God has only blessed me for it. I have told people that I never thought that I would ever fall in love again after meeting my husband. Falling in love with him was it. Imagine my complete surprise when I fell in love with God after discovering the teachings of the Catholic Church.
I converted 7 years ago. The absolute best thing I ever did. Second was marrying my husband. (smile)
Posted by: Sue from Buffalo | March 18, 2009 9:07 AM
I really enjoyed reading this. The more I've come to embrace my catholic faith (I'm a revert), the more I desire a reunification of all the Christian denominations. Your letter and this man's blog post are encouraging to me that this goal will one day be reached.
God loves all of us and is the only one fit to judge us after all. I really wish that Christians would quit trying to condemn each other.
Posted by: Susan | March 18, 2009 10:10 AM
Hey Barbara, I went to the link and read through the comments but couldn't take it any more. I feel my blood pressure rise when I read the comments that are so wrong about Catholics. There are times when defending the faith can be re-energizing and then others when it can be just exhausting when you know it doesn't matter what you say or do people have made their minds up regarding the Catholic Church. Today is not the day for me to argue with people, but instead to be comfortable with my place in The Catholic Church ;)
Posted by: Margaret | March 18, 2009 11:49 AM
Barbara, thanks so much for this article. It is refreshing to read such encouraging statements such as "we don't know, only HE knows" as opposed to the typical "door knockers" that insist they know their fate and everyone else is doomed unless you believe what they're selling.
I hope you don't mind, but I wrote a blog article on this last year about my experiences that I would like to share with you and your readers. The article is here:
http://catholicconservativeamerican.blogspot.com/2008/11/hated-by-world.html
When I think of how the Catholic Church is so hated by the "world" it strengthens my resolve and confirms my faith that I am where I need to be. When Satan's forces desecrate the Body of Christ in the Eucharist, they always steal it from the Catholic Church. When enemies of Christianity name their enemies they don't talk about other denominations, only the "Followers of Benedict" or words to that effect. The church that Satan despises and the world despises is my church!
I can't say it any better than one of the most profound Catholic leaders already has, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen:
"If I were not a Catholic and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates. My reason for doing this would be that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, he must still be hated as he was when he was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world.
"Look for the Church that is hated by the world as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times as our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior as they sneered at our Lord because he came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil as our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the prince of devils. Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of God as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to God. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible as Pilate rejected Christ because he called himself the Truth. Look for the Church which is rejected by the world as our Lord was rejected by men.
"Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions its members love as they love Christ and respect its voice as the very voice of its founder, and the suspicion will grow that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly it is other-worldly. Since it is other-worldly it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ himself. But only that which is divine can be infinitely hated and infinitely loved. Therefore the Church is divine."
May God Bless and protect each of you,
Bob Cavalcante
http://CatholicConservativeAmerican.blogspot.com
Posted by: Bob Cavalcante | March 18, 2009 12:11 PM
Hi, Barbara. I linked to your blog through Regina Doman's post on your laundry book. :)
I was delighted to see you had reverted to the Catholic Church. I was a lifelong Evangelical until I joined the Church in 1998. It sometimes has been difficult, particularly working and writing in the CBA, when people subtly persecute my decision. As you said, it is difficult to understand how they can look at your obedient life and then turn hostile over that choice. But for whatever reason I've found that behavior to be softening in the last few years. Perhaps it is because some are coming to realize the Catholic Church really stands for what it believes.
Anyway, we met years ago at Mt Hermon so I just wanted to say hi and I'm happy to see where you are today. And after reading Margaret's post above, I think I'll avoid that link!
Posted by: Christy Scannell | March 18, 2009 1:37 PM
Do other Catholics feel the conflict I do when I read the comments on Mr. Groves' blog? I totally agree that the legalistic and judgmental approach some Evangelicals and Fundamentalists take toward Catholics is uncharitable and wrong (on so many levels), but the reaction of so many well intentioned that, "denominations don't matter," drives me just as crazy. I am Catholic because it is true. How do we invite (not berate, or condemn or judge) others to the fullness of truth when faced with such friendly and polite, "all that matters is that we believe in Jesus" conversation stoppers?
Posted by: Anne | March 18, 2009 11:25 PM
Give it to the Lord! Funny story: less than a week ago my husband was being criticized by a coworker for having so many children (we have four). His coworker said, "just wait until they grow up-- what are you going to say when one of them comes home strung out on drugs, or wants to try out the Catholic religion. . ." Just laugh and love the Lord and His Church! Like St. Lawrence, "turn me over; I'm done on this side!"
Posted by: Faith | March 19, 2009 5:46 PM
Until recently I had no idea that Christians of different denominations doubted the legitimacy of Catholicism, and needless to say, when I found these questions quite shocking. Im 15 years old and have been a Catholic all my life, and I had quite a bit of exposure to other denominations as well. I just don't understand how a fellow Christian can look upon my faith and tell me that Im not a Christian. Some of my peers have commented that Catholicism is fundamentally corrupt, but I think he that is without sin should cast the first stone.
Posted by: Tim G | December 5, 2009 12:52 AM
