March 28, 2009 12:28 PM
Toddler won't sleep through the night - your advice?
Dear Barbara,I came across your website completely by 'accident' (a divine 'accident'). I really appreciate your philosophy and the advice I've read on your site so far.
I could really use some perspective. I have the most amazing 16-month-old son ever. He's brilliant. He also perfectly fits the Sears' description of the 'high needs baby'. He has never slept through the night. He's had an 8-hour stretch on three different occasions, but of course I was so freaked out that I couldn't sleep. He starts the night in his crib in his room and comes into our bed after his first wakeup (which is usually after 1-2 hours, but sometimes less, sometimes more),
I know ALL the advice to try to help the situation (wean him from nursing to sleep, night wean, wean him completely, cry-it-out, modified cry-it-out, send dad in, put him down drowsy but awake, etc, etc, etc.) I have serious philosophical issues with a lot of those, and the others simply won't work with my son. We have been working towards him not nursing to sleep. I've been backing into it, sort of. In other words, I used to rock him for 5 minutes after he fell asleep before putting him in his bed, but we're now down to 1.5 minutes. I'm hoping eventually he will be able to fall asleep without nursing and then we'll be able to start backing out of the rocking. We'll see.
What I really need is to just hear that someone, ANYONE had a baby that eventually slept through the night on their own without crying it out. I have this little nagging fear that he will night-wean himself before he's sleeping through, and then how will I get him back to sleep easily?! At least I don't have to leave my bed now.
Thanks for listening (or reading).
Heather
While the whole attachment parenting philosophy resonates with me, I can't say that I applied it one hundred percent. To be honest - which I am compelled to be, lest other mothers judge themselves too harshly - I did on occasion let my children "cry it out." The good news is that all survived. And so did I.
But because I know I wouldn't/couldn't have reached the 16-month-old mark being 100% AP, I feel unqualified to answer this.
Perhaps there are readers out there with advice?
Posted in Babies, Mothering, Toddlers | Permalink
Comments
I've got three kids who have all had a hard time getting to sleep through the night. I've never let them cry it out- for two reasons. One, I am so zombie like in the middle of the night that I'm already in their room comforting them before I even realize it. :) And two, I am just uncomfortable with the whole idea. (Not that I think everyone needs to be uncomfortable with the idea, it just isn't my style.) Anyway, so far they have all started sleeping through the night right around two years old. I know that's way later than the experts say it will happen if you use other methods but that's okay with me. Just wanted to encourage you that there are others in your boat and it does work out eventually. :)
Posted by: Louise | March 28, 2009 1:27 PM
i think i may be what you are looking for answer wise..
dd didnt sleep more than 4-5 hours till she was about a year old...she fell asleep in our arms (took 5 mins..) put her to sleep in crib, she's wake up and i'd sleep with her in guest room on reg bed till about 14 months...we thought HMMMMM interesting how she seems to HATE the crib and love the bed..put mattress on floor, made her a room, guest room became dd's room...with her toys...we'd put her to sleep there and poof....that was it....we'd lie down with her (again 5min) till she was asleep..if she woke we joined her..
we did the cry it out thing...after 3 hours...i was crying louder than she was....and she was screaming..never again...with my son, he cried 10 mins and that was it..her NOPE...we now know her aspergers was screaming loud and clear that she needed a different style of parenting and we are glad we trusted our insticts...
at 2 we had a baby, i was gonna lie down with dd but ds wanted to nurse..so i lied her down and told her i'd be back in 10 mins...she fell asleep and has fallen asleep on her own every night now , she's almost 8 and is my best sleeper...never a fuss..goes right to sleep ....
i figured no kid goes to college sleeping with mom and dad..so we listened to our child...worked for us, ....i am weary of hearing, you're not doing it right , THIS way workes all the time...but that's not always true..with our dd i read more parenting books you could imagine...and none of them worked....one of the first questions the psychologist asked us when dd was being evaluated...how many parenting books failed with her...lol....
you will be fine....i will say that dh was supportive and we did this together...if dh didnt want dd in bed....she wouldnt have been...one of the reasons we used the guest bed was to allow the other parent to get as much sleep as possible..
this long enough for you,,hahahaha
best quote by dr sears...Do whatever allows the most people in the household to get the most amount of sleep...if that is happening that you are doing it the thing for your family...
Posted by: celina | March 28, 2009 1:45 PM
i can relate EXACTLY to what louise has said. my babies starting sleeping at around 2 years old....and prior to that i always questioned what i was doing wrong because they were not living up to what people thought. (everyone around me has babies that slept through the night from 5 weeks !!)
but i've come to a new conclusion...and that is...it eventually works itself out. sometimes, they might need to have a bit of a cry (for me that means 10 min max) but mostly, i go to them...because if they are crying for me....it means they need their mama. and that's what i've been given to do!
not always easy but so very worth it as well.
Posted by: ruth | March 28, 2009 1:55 PM
My son eventually learned to sleep through the night, but he was three. And he gave up his nighttime pacifer on his fourth birthday, on his own.
I think most kids will get there on their own.
I didn't do the "cry it out thing" because we couldn't due to breathing issues.
You'll get there.
Posted by: sandra | March 28, 2009 3:12 PM
Yes,....I too have been there. Very frustrating. I would encourage him sleeping with you. That was when they wake during the night, you are right there to comfort them. My 1yo is beyond "high needs" he is over the top "high needs" and he is my 6th...so I have others to compare. He takes forever to get to sleep, which is done (after nursing) by my husband patting him and talking in a repetitive voice. "Sheep go ba-ba, cow goes moo-moo, chickens go cluck-cluck...and on and on and on! Seriously this is what we found that works...I just put him down for a nap doing this! Also...watching Little Einsteins...we DVR this and have watched it many a time in the middle of the night =)
My only point in telling you this is that you have to keep searching for a solution do not give up....your child is telling you that he needs you. Always remember that this too shall pass. Oops...he just woke up from his nap =( He is such a light sleeper...off to put him back to sleep AGAIN!
Posted by: Carolyn | March 28, 2009 3:35 PM
I think, generally speaking, if you practice AP and simply can't tolerate allowing your babies to cry before they sleep, then you will often have children who don't sleep well when they're young. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've heard so many AP moms say exactly what so many of you here are saying: that their babies are 2 or 3 years (instead of 2 or 3 months) before they learn how to sleep well. I hope you find an easier way, sooner.
My babies NEVER screamed themselves to sleep when they were two, because I let them cry a little when they were small. I intentionally did not nurse them before bedtime. I wanted them to learn to transition from waking to sleeping on their own. This is an important "skill," one necessary for life, and not automatic for children if their parents train them otherwise.
Just my opinion.
Posted by: mary kathryn | March 28, 2009 3:53 PM
Dr. Sears' Sleep Book and his baby book have a lot of great ideas that can inspire moms and dads to find arrangements that work for their family.
Our own arrangements have evolved as our family has grown. We have nursed to sleep, shared sleep with two preschoolers at a time, put mattresses on the floor of our room, tandem-nursed (which I am still doing), and basically done whatever gets us the most sleep and is comforting for the little ones.
Right now I nurse the three year old a little bit in his bed as part of bedtime routine while the older two play with the baby. He has just started sleeping through the night, but on rare occasion he will come into our bed. The baby comes to bed with us, and it has been wonderful to never be sleep deprived and fully functioning! And I can still take care of my husband too, if you know what I mean. :)
When trying to decide your own family arrangements, it may be helpful to ask, "Why?" and then explore your answer. For example, I explored the question, "Why should my baby learn to self-soothe?" Well, I could not find a good enough answer to that question to justify the hardship of separating myself from him when he needed me. (My answer, he CAN'T self-soothe!)
I know that God will provide the wisdom and strength that you need to do what is best for your own family, even if it may go against our cultural "norms" and expectations. Or go with them, either way. God bless!
Posted by: Rach | March 28, 2009 7:23 PM
I'm in the same boat as you are! Right now I am trying to put her bed awake, and I stay there and pat her stomach while she settles herself. She sometimes cries, sometimes doesn't. I don't feel like it's as hard as crying it out, because I'm right there. I did last night wait before going into get her during the night and twice she fell back asleep after about 10 minutes. We were cosleeping but it got to the point where both of us were not sleeping well! So we are transitioning to the crib and going from nursing 6 times a night to just 3. I'll night wean her down to one time per night if I can. I don't mind waking up once, it's just the constant need to nurse herself back to sleep that I can't handle.
I hope this helps! I hope we both find something that works!!
Posted by: Debra | March 28, 2009 7:35 PM
Honestly, what has worked best for us for our three is to stop putting pressure on ourselves and our babies to sleep a certain way at a certain age. If it works for you and yours, it's OK if it's not someone elses idea of success. My two big kids woke up a lot at night until they were weaned at 18 mos. to 2yrs but now they sleep fine and I spend no time worrying about the baby's sleep habits because I'm not afraid I'm going to warp her! ;)
Posted by: Jacqueline | March 28, 2009 10:32 PM
I've had three different experiences here, all of which might be relevant to yours.
The first was my daughter, who nursed to sleep every single time until sometime around her second birthday, when she had a baby brother who sometimes needed me around bedtime. At that age, I found that she could understand that I needed to go check on the baby or go potty or whatever, and that I'd come check on her soon -- and often when I came back to check, she was asleep. Night wakings with her got much rarer when, around 18 months old, we started giving her a high-protein snack at bedtime and offering her water instead of nursing when she woke up in the middle of the night. (This change was probably made easier by the fact that my milk was drying up thanks to pregnancy at that time.) She left our bed by her own decision when she was three -- decided she'd rather sleep with her doll than with Mommy and Daddy -- and aside from the occasional bedwetting and a case of croup, has never disturbed our sleep since then.
The second experience is the little brother. Like my daughter, he slept in our bed from infancy on, and woke up to nurse a few times a night, which I didn't mind. Unlike my daughter, he took a lot more than nursing to get back to sleep, and that was very disruptive to my sleep. He also grew, and kept growing, and was a very restless sleeper. The time came when I realized that his presence in our bed was destroying my sleep and my husband's sleep, and something had to change. There was some crying and fighting over the move to his own bed, but it was the right decision for us. And, that change came closer to two years old, so we weren't leaving a defenseless baby to cry it out but were instead telling a toddler that the rules had changed and he had to abide by them -- a very big difference in my book. In time, he got used to the new rule, and moving him to his own bed actually seemed to remove some disruption to his sleep, as he immediately started sleeping through the night. We still have the occasional struggle to get him in bed, and he still fights falling asleep, but if we can get him to lie still long enough to collapse, he sleeps fine.
The third experience is with the current baby of our family, who is 17 months old now, still sleeping in the parental bed, and still waking up to nurse a time or two at night. He sleeps in our bed, so nursing is no big disruption to my sleep, and he wakes up so happily in the morning! I'll miss his warm little presence beside me when he leaves our bed; I don't know yet when that will be, but am watching for any signs that he (or we) might be ready for that transition.
They do all sleep independently eventually. If everyone in the house is getting enough sleep, there is no problem. If someone isn't getting enough sleep, there is a problem, but a one-size-fits-all solution generally doesn't help much; creativity and paying attention to the details of your situation will likely help you more than a whole bookcase full of parenting books. I hope you find a solution that fits your family.
Posted by: Newt Sherwin | March 28, 2009 10:55 PM
I did not read all the other responses so forgive me if I am repeating something but I had two thoughts.
1. The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley has some great tips, it didn't/doesn't work %100 for my kids but what does right?
2. Even Dr. Sears says that a baby/toddler/child that falls asleep crying in the arms of a loving parent isn't the same as leaving a child to CIO. For our family that translates to not nursing to sleep and crying in our arms and then eventually transfering to a bed were we sit and pat them, ect. ect.
HTH :)
Posted by: Amie | March 29, 2009 2:48 AM
My second son needed so much help for sleeping for so long. Walks and rocking and swings and rocking and walks. He was the Worst Sleeper Ever. From one day to the next, just about his first birthday, he started sleeping through the night. I still have no idea what "clicked." But he learned, and we didn't do the CIO thing. It's rough, but hang in there if you can handle the sleep deprivation yourself.
Posted by: swissmiss | March 29, 2009 5:33 AM
Not to scare you at all, but have you considered getting an evaluation for sensory processing disorder (sometimes called sensory integration disorder)? We had lots of sleep problems with our son (now 6 1/2 and sleeps in his own bed with us in the room on the floor until he falls asleep then we leave, but when he wakes up he cannot go back to sleep on his own.) It turns out that he has SPD and cannot calm himself. We tried everything in the books etc. Nothing worked, except getting Occupational Therapy to work on his sensory needs.
Posted by: Sara | March 29, 2009 7:00 AM
We mostly practiced attachment parenting (still do) with all three of our children. I read most everything that came across my radar, but Dr. & Martha Sears really appealed to me.
None of my children were great sleepers, but I wanted to do what I thought was best for them by helping them to learn to sleep in a kind and gentle way. I considered any loss of sleep a part of my loving sacrifice that I was making for my children (and sometimes sleep deprivation is a small sacrifice compared to other things in later years :-)
Eventually, they all slept through the night (at different ages/stages) and before they left our bed. I do believe that I lost less sleep by putting them in the bed with us and nursing on demand (until they weaned; I didn't wean them). I even nursed my two year old while I was pregnant with baby number three, which was really a good thing for all of us since my toddler son had lots of "mommy needs" met before little sister came along.
Sometimes, my husband or I would wake just a little bit before baby or toddler began to rouse; we would lay our hand on his/her back and we would all go back to sleep (a Sears recommendation). This worked very well. I did notice that on days when I had been particularly busy and a little distant from the baby/toddler (maybe dad did more of their care other than nursing) that he/she would wake me more at night--a natural reaction to having their "mommy tank" filled.
I really liked that my children knew mom and dad were close at night time, too, and I LOVED every minute of us all waking up together in the mornings. At one point, we had a very long-legged 4 yr. old and a 1 1/2 yr. old in our king-sized bed. It was so much fun to watch my 18 mo. old look for his sister each morning! I could cry right now.....
As each child got older, there were rules that had to be followed if they wanted to stay in our bed; otherwise, husband and I would have needed to sleep in helmets--ha!
BTW: It took longer for my husband to adjust to sharing sleep with a wiggly baby, but once he adjusted, he really felt like it was the right thing for us to do (his words).
There was quite a bit of sleep loss by parenting this way, but way more joy.
There's a lot of good words of encouragement here. Just figure out what works for your family and know that all of our children's stages are really pretty short in the scope of their/our lives. Realize the less appealing things won't last long and really, really enjoy the wonderful things because some of those won't last so long either.
Posted by: von | March 29, 2009 2:18 PM
My high needs baby is now 8, and is a wonderful brilliant child. He gave me a big run for my money until about the age of 6, but has been more of a blessing since then. His mind is ALWAYS going. He started reading "at" words right before the age of 4, and does awesome in our homeschool. If he is not tired, he does awesome with chores and can be a real help around the house. BUT- still to this day, he needs a list and a plan to keep him busy. As a baby, he wore me out, and I ended up doing the cry it out, which did not work at first. I think I abandoned it the first time, and tried again around a year old or so. I have since not used the cry it out because I used " secrets of the baby whisperer" with my 3rd and 4th babies, and found it to be very helpful. She has a toddler book as well. Google Tracy Hogg-I think she has forums...
My post is mostly just to encourage this mom that she probably has a very bright child on her hands who is going to bless her socks off. My 8 year old is getting very spiritually wise, and is very sensitive to what is right and wrong-- I don't worry about him giving in to peer pressure.
I wish you the best!
Posted by: Lisa | March 29, 2009 5:42 PM
Heather, my first baby was and is high needs. I read Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, which has some great info about how to time sleep, but also suggests letting them cry it out. I tried it and still regret it. He self-weaned except for night nursing; so I encouraged weaning by offering a cup of water instead and regret that too. He is now a little boy, highly sensitive and amazingly tender and sweet. He needs lots of cuddles and closeness. When I tried to let him cry it out, he would panic rather than calm down. He sleeps in his own bed now, but wakes before anyone else and climbs into bed with us if we're still in it and snuggles. His baby brother on the other hand prefers to have space when sleeping. Once he was so tired, I put him in his crib and he screamed one scream and fell asleep. So there probably isn't one right way. If your husband and you don't mind your son sleeping with you for now or for seveal years, just do it. You're teaching him that he can trust you. If people give you a hard time, don't tell them about it. :) I let my second baby wean himself as a toddler and saw how beautiful and healthy that is. I encourage you to do what your husband agrees with, and if you don't agree, then ask him to listen to your heart and help you come to a solution that works for all of you.
Posted by: Angela | March 30, 2009 12:49 AM
I think my best advice is do what works for you.
Don't let someone convince you that letting the baby sleep with you is a bad thing. There are so many articles out there that actually state the benefits to sleeping with our kids.
I also think that we live in a culture that tells us that our kids MUST be sleeping through the night by a certain age. When most other cultures don't have that ideal. Why does ours? We think babies should be able to take care of themselves and be on their own, but we as adults yearn for companionship. I would never let my son cry, even if all he needed was comfort. My husband would never deny me the comfort I need because I am older. Why deny a baby/child?
And what does sleeping through the night really mean? My son is almost 2 and I guess I would say he sleeps through the night. But there are a few nights a week he weeks up briefly and needs a hug. And I know more parents that have kids like that than parents who actually have kids who sleep 12 hours without waking at all. I think we are kidding ourselves saying babies must sleep though the night.
But don't be discouraged! It won't last forever. Kids don't nurse forever, or use pacifiers until kindergarten, or sleep with you until they go to college. The will become independent adults. All I want my son to know is that I will be there for him when he cries and lay with him when he is scared.
Posted by: Momma | March 30, 2009 3:16 PM
Heather-
NONE of my 4 kids have slept through the night regularly until between the ages of 3 and 5 and, according to my parents, neither did I or any of my siblings.
But all of us (except my youngest who is only 2) now go to sleep without any assistance and sleep through 8-12 hours without any problem.
Now, could I have sped up the process and gotten them sleeping independently and for longer, sooner? Probably.
But to me it just wasn't worth the physical or emotional effort. We did what it sounds like you do - rock/nurse to sleep in the child's own room and then bring them (or have them bring themselves when they are older) into our bed the first time they wake after I have gone to bed. And for us this was fine. My husband and I had time alone together in the evenings and everyone got a reasonable amount of sleep despite the night wakings. So we didn't do much of anything in the way of 'teaching' our kids to sleep without us - they just eventually started falling asleep alone while we tended to younger sibs and stopped coming to join us in the middle of the night.
Why do you think your child should be falling asleep alone or sleeping longer stretches without you? Is it actually causing problems in your life or is it just that the baby 'experts' make you feel like you are doing something wrong if your child still prefers your company at night? If it's the latter, just don't worry about it. Your child WILL eventually sleep solo regardless of what you do or don't do.
Posted by: Minna | March 30, 2009 6:58 PM
And all of our kids did wean long before they slept through the night, but that isn't a problem either. Older toddlers and preschoolers generally don't need mom and dad to DO much of anything when they crawl in bed with them and often our little ones would join us and go right back to sleep without even waking me up.
Posted by: Minna | March 30, 2009 7:21 PM
Ours don't usually sleep through the night consistently until close to 2 years old. I also thought it was just me being a bad mommy, but I could never bring myself to CIO, and dh wouldn't tolerate it.
What eventually helped was after we had been training our sons for *daytime* obedience. At some point close to 2 yo, we were able to say from our bed "Son, lie down and go back to sleep" and they would! Not without a little fussing, but a very minimal amount. I could never, never let a little one cry for hours in order to enforce night time sleep. But we have had no problems with training for obedience and giving a stern command when needed. Much less stressful for all involved. :) And I don't care anymore what other people think of us having a toddler in our room, or nursing him at night. I think in our children's case it was partially developmental and partially the obedience training and things just finally clicked in their little brains.
Posted by: Margaret | March 31, 2009 6:30 AM
I remember our first and the problems she had falling asleep in her own crib, in her own room. She would scream, and my wife would go and pick her up every time she screamed.
My wife learned about the process where you let the child cry for 5 minutes, go in give her a hug, tell her you love her, don't pick her up, then leave. 5 minutes later you do the same thing. You keep doing this every 5 minutes until the child falls asleep on her own.
My wife couldn't stand it so she designated me as the "bad guy".
The first night we went 20 minutes. Second night 10 minutes the third night she was on her own. For our child it was like magic.
Posted by: Tony | March 31, 2009 12:01 PM
You got lots of good answers, but I just wanted to encourage you by saying that this too shall pass. Sleeping with your baby/toddler for part or all of the night will not cause dire sleep problems or anything of the sort. Here in Japan everyone sleeps with their kids, and often up to elementary school age. I am sure there are insomniacs here, but I have never met one!
My kids all slept/do sleep with us (we use futons), and all of them now sleep through the night (I have four kids ages 2-11), but all arrived at that point at different ages. Two woke at night until they were weaned, the other two slept through before weaning. The only one I had to let cry was my son who liked to nurse five times a night. I did have to let him cry while night weaning, but I was right next to him the whole time comforting him. I think personality is a big factor. Do what works for you and your family, and try not to worry about what anyone else is doing!
Posted by: SueInJapan | April 1, 2009 7:47 AM
