June 23, 2009 5:53 PM
Prenatal tests? Your advice, please
Received this from Addie, who blogs at Blah G, where she recently ran a review of my book Lord, Please meet Me in the Laundry Room:
Hi Barbara,I am about 6 weeks pregnant with my 3rd child. I'm so excited! We are really looking forward to adding to our family. I have a question for you. In my previous pregnancies, I wasn't particularly educated about why some women opt out of the blood tests which screen for Down Syndrome and neural tube defects. I had the screens done and had absolutely no intention of aborting my babies if the test came back with a higher risk. This time I feel the same, so I'm wondering if I should even have the screening done? If something is discovered about this baby, would knowing about make things easier or harder after he or she is born? Is it just a waste of money? What would you do?
On a side note, I've noticed when I tell people I'm pregnant, so many people ask "was it planned?" I feel like saying, "Why does it matter and why do you care?!" My Christian friends are even asking this. A symptom of the birth control culture I guess. I love reading your blog, and doing so has helped change my view on children and how they are all blessings. ;)
Thank you,
Addie
Dear Addie -Congratulations! That is so funny/sad how people say that - like why in the world might someone actually want a third child???? Like children aren't the most valuable treasure on earth.
Some women say they will have the tests in order to be prepared if the baby has Down syndrome, but I have known of some who panicked when the results came back positive and actually allowed themselves to be persuaded to abort (yes, even Christians). It's much easier to receive the news when you're holding a precious baby in your arms and bonding as you would with any other child.
If you are secure. I would say the advantage would be in being able to prepare, but actually they usually can see markers in the ultrasound anyway. As I recall, I had the AFP done for the other issues (spina bifida). As I recall, it was so slightly elevated that I never gave it a second thought, so Jonny's birth was a complete surprise.
If your OB-GYN is truly on board with your pro-life views, I would say it might be helpful.
But honestly, for me it's been 17 years - do you want me to run the question at my blog to see what others are doing? Sometimes that can be very helpful.
Addie said yes - so we'd like to hear from you: what are you doing about prenatal tests?
Posted in Pregnancy, birth and labor | Permalink
Comments
I had Nick, who just happens to have Down Syndrome, when I was 29. I had the standard AFP that was offered in 1993 and it came back normal. In some ways I am very grateful, abortion would have been a hard choice, but I'm afraid the fear of what-if's would have been so great I may have allowed others to convince me to do it. In 2000 and 2002, I gave birth to my younger two boys. At the time I found out I was pregnant I basically (with my husband's approval) said I wanted no prenatal testing but would allow the doctors to do more ultrasounds (and better quality ones if they thought they were necessary). My husband and I figured we'd accept whatever infant we were given and since what-if's tend to put me in panic mode we figured we'd deal with the what-if's if and when they happened and not before. I know if I'd have another baby (I'm 45 now) I'd still choose not to test.
Posted by: Cari | June 23, 2009 6:39 PM
I always opted out of tests. I figured I could become educated quite quickly, should the need arise.
Interestingly, when I saw the PA at my first appointment for baby #8, I told her no tests and she replied, "Oh, I'm so glad you feel that way. There are so many false positives anyways."
Addie ~ Congrats!!!!
Posted by: Tracy | June 23, 2009 6:39 PM
I have expressed my opinion on this matter before, so I apologize for the repeat, but I am really interested in what people have to say on the matter.
My best friend had a son with Down Syndrome with no advance notice. She told me she wished she had known because he needed heart surgery right away and she would have gone to a different hospital, and also she would have done some research pre-sleep deprived newborn state that would have made things easier for her to wade through the paperwork, etc. I respected her hindsight.
I have always had the tests for my 4, although I am very committed to life and abortion would never enter my mind. My thoughts are these. We talk a lot about how 90% (or some staggering number) of pre-born babies diagnosed with these conditions are aborted, and follow up with the remarks about the callous attitude of the health care professionals we come into contact with on the issue. If only those open to abortion, or looking for "perfect" children have the tests, how can we expect the health care professionals to react any differently. If those of us from the culture of Life routinely had these tests and routinely accepted with grace whatever God chose to give us as witness in full sight of these health care workers, maybe their perspective would change? I don't know, but it just seems to me that if only those who will discard anomalies have the tests,and then go on to do just that,we aren't giving enough witness that there is a better way. I am not excusing anyone's behavior, but I think we might be missing an opportunity here to set a Christlike example. Of course I have never been faced with a test actually giving me an unexpected result, so I openly admit I have no first-hand experience in how the doctors would react. It is all speculation here, just something I think about from time to time. Looking forward to the other comments.
Posted by: Danielle M. | June 23, 2009 6:44 PM
I've had five daughters (most recently January 13) and rejected testing all five times. I rejected the testing because I feel that the things they test for aren't reasons to abort, if there are any reasons to abort. DS has got such an enormous support group and is so well known that I can't imagine why anyone would be afraid. I only hear and see positive things about Down's babies. This is just me and not everyone thinks like me so I understand that other people would want time to prepare to meet their special baby. I don't want to be asked "do you want an abortion." I let them know up front that I wouldn't abort no matter the results. They are surprisingly supportive. Since it's a woman's group of OBs I thought for sure that I'd be pummelled with "why nots", but they just smiled and said okay.
I think that I am also held up by a very godly and supportive husband. I think if we had a sick baby and it was a surprise, he would be heart-sick, but he would be encouraged by God's grace and share that with me.
I think it's just about your...place? in life. Get it if you want to, or don't. Either way, prepare your heart with prayer to face the results with the knowledge that abortion is not an option. And it sounds like Addie has done this. Congratulations Mama!
Posted by: Joanna | June 23, 2009 7:22 PM
I always opted out. I knew that I would never have an abortion. I also knew that there is a very high false positive rate. My understanding was that many warning signals can be picked up on ultrasound anyway, so I didn't want to risk a false positive and the pressure that might come from the doc's office.
Posted by: Amanda | June 23, 2009 7:42 PM
I rejected all testing except ultrasound for all three pregnancies (even blood tests). I always had higher resolution u.s., so I figured any major problems would be discovered that way. If there had been a question, I would have done further screening (depending on what it might be), not to abort, but to be prepared.
When I was born, there was very little screening done. I was born with a severe congenital heart defect and had I been born anywhere other than the university hospital (my parents were students), I would have died. Because of my heart defect, I would never have had my babies anyplace other than a major hospital (none of those birthing centers for me, although I had friends give birth in these places and they had great experiences) in case there was something that had not been caught by the ultrasound.
I am pretty sure that I would not have had an amniocentesis (sp?), unless the diagnosis was very dire. From what I understand about that test, there is a potential for its causing a miscarriage and I didn't want to risk that, especially since I would not have seen a disabled child as the end of the world.
Good luck! And like with so many things in parenting, go with your instincts. Some people are more able to live with uncertainty than others. I have friends who LOVE being surprised by the sex of their babies. Not me. I wanted to know whether it was a boy or a girl for all three. I needed to be able to name and plan for the baby, even though I didn't actually care which one we got. :) So, do what you believe is right.
Posted by: Lucy | June 23, 2009 7:58 PM
Long, long story shorter...
I had many "false" positives during my pregnancy with my son. Despite many people telling us we should abort, we decided to continue the pregnancy. My water broke at 23 weeks, and my son was born 7 weeks later. I say that the tests were false in that he did not have an immediately identifiable genetic defect. Over the course of 4 years we have discovered that he likely has some sort of genetic issue that is affecting his endocrine and reproductive systems.
Even so, the tests did nothing to prepare us for this and served no purpose other than something with which to bludgeon us during the pregnancy.
We opted out of prental testing during our next viable pregnancy. I was seen by a highrisk doctor during that pregnancy to keep a close eye on my fluid levels and cervical weakening, but we did not do any other tests.
I do understand why someone would test even if abortion were not an option, but the results of the tests weren't worth the risks to us.
Posted by: Lauren | June 23, 2009 8:05 PM
Congratulations, Addie, first and foremost. A child is always a precious gift!
Our 4th child, John Michael 19 months old, has Down syndrome.
The previous poster is correct that there is a wonderful support network online through forums, websites, blogs and social networking sites -- unbelievably wonderful!
I opted out of all testing (besides ultrasound) for each pregnancy, even at the last pregnancy at age 40. My thought is that a prenatal diagnosis would add unnecessary stress to my pregnancy. While abortion is not an option for me, I would worry myself sick about a diagnosis that may or may be correct and perhaps be too anxious during the pregnancy and delivery. There are too many false positives as I've seen personally with some of my friends. It was better for me to hear the words after I met my precious baby. A great prolife place to go for support is the International Down Syndrome Coalition for LIFE website
God Bless You and your precious baby. You may stop by our blog anytime -- www.monicacrumley.blogspot.com to see how much children w/ Ds are just like typical kids.
(As an aside for the previous poster, the proper terminology is "babies with Down syndrome" rather than "Down's babies" since they are people first, not their diagnosis.)
Posted by: Monica | June 23, 2009 8:17 PM
From what I understand, the blood test for AFP is a screening. If it comes back abnormal, an amnio is usually ordered.
I personally opt out of the AFP tests for a couple of reasons:
1. The test does not test for any condition that can be addressed or helped while the baby is still in the womb;
2. I have no intention of abortion;
3. I would not risk an amnio even if the AFP was abnormal (there is a risk of miscarriage and infection associated with it);
4. I'd worry obsessively for the rest of the pregnancy, which wouldn't be good for me or baby!
5. I DO have ultrasounds and fetal non-stress tests done, which would be helpful in catching any physical abnormalities (heart defects, etc.)
Each woman needs to make her own choices, but I hope seeing my reasoning is helpful to you too!
Posted by: Milehimama | June 23, 2009 8:30 PM
I do not do the blood screens for genetic defects. For one, they are REALLY inaccurate...
For another, I don't feel it's necessary. An ultrasound will see the markers, and if not, it's okay.
I honestly feel that it's another ''tool'' used to push unneeded intervention and abortion. That's just my opinion of course.
The tests I do are:
20 week u/s
gestational diabetes
HIV (because I live in a state where it's ''required'' and very difficult to opt out of.
GBS test at 37 weeks. I've been + twice and it's easy to prevent with abx in labor.
Other than that...prenatal care is good, up to a point. When it becomes a tool used to badger women into conforming to certain medical ''standards'' it's a headache.
I'm 33 weeks with my fifth. I did not even see a provider until I was 25 weeks. I rather liked that honestly, and will do that in the future, unless something makes it necessary to be seen sooner.
Posted by: Sandy | June 23, 2009 8:41 PM
First of all, Congratulations Addie! How exciting for you!
We did not have any testing done on our first child. When I became pregnant with my son, he had some problem in utero. My doctor, knowing my feelings on the testing, specifically asked me again to have it done. He felt that he may be able to better monitor the baby if he knew there was a specific "problem". I consented knowing that no matter what the outcome, this was my son and I wanted him regardless. All tests came back fine. When Raymond was born at 30 weeks, we were told he had Down Syndrome.
We also have friends I'd like to tell you about. They were both in their late thirties when they decided that it was now and never in regards to having a baby. They both were high ranking officers in the military and wanted to start to take it a little slower. They found out they were expecting and were thrilled. Shortly after they, like many people, had all the testing done. They were told that their child had a very severe case of Down Syndrome. She would never be able to live a functional and productive life. Our friends were asked if they wanted to abort. They were adamant about keeping the baby. Even though they were scared of what lied ahead, this was their child and they loved her regardless. So with much disagreement from the doctor they continued along with the pregnancy. A few months later our friends were the proud parents of a sweet little girl. A sweet little girl without Down Syndrome. A sweet little girl with not one single health problem.
So as far as I'm concerned this testing is a waste of everyone's time. Think of how many innocent babies are killed every year because their parents are misinformed by these tests and pressured by their doctors. Also, for the people who are told their child is fine, like us, and then find out otherwise, it's an even bigger blow. I was devastated the first day we found out Raymond had Down Syndrome when we were told he was "fine". That emotion quickly passed. I just personally feel these tests are more trouble then they are worth!
Posted by: Erica | June 23, 2009 9:04 PM
We are currently expecting our fourth child. I had a discussion with my doctor about prenatal testing at my first appointment as there is a new screening test available since my last pregnancy. To the best of my understanding, the nuchal fold translucency/blood test and quad screen are just that--screens. If they found anything of concern, the only way to make a definitive diagnosis would be amniocentesis or CVS.
I completely respect others' choices regarding prenatal testing, but personally, the risk of miscarriage associated with amnio and CVS, however slight, make them out of the question for me. I have a friend who wasn't fully informed about the 'next step' if there was a concern with an initial screen, had results outside the normal range and spent the remainder of her pregnancy worried about the health of her son as she didn't want to have an amnio. (For the record, her son is now a 6th grader with no health issues).
Posted by: KatieButler | June 23, 2009 9:05 PM
I have a daughter who was born with a mitochondrial disease and also has autism. Signs of both the disease and the disorder were obvious to us as early as two weeks old. She was hospitalized then and we're still struggling to bond almost five years later.
I opted out of the tests they offered because it made no difference to me the baby God was giving me - it was a gift and I was so grateful for the opportunity.
If a test came out that tested for mito or autism and I became pregnant again, I would not choose to have the testing done for the same reasons I've always refused. And I've told the doctors (twice with my two babies) no and why - and looked at them like they were crazy because I didn't even know they did this testing and couldn't figure out why they would offer it and then they'd suggest abortion as an alternative IF something was wrong and I'd look even more horrified and tell them where I stood on the issue of life.
As for helping me get prepared - I understand it from that point to a degree, but also maybe just choosing a good, reputable hospital with doctors connected to a good children's hospital - because a baby can be born with all kinds of challenges, predicted by a test or not. The rest of the preparation comes on the job. Even if I had read all the books on autism and mito disease, I still wouldn't have been prepared for what life would be like, for how I would have to change all the ways I would think to naturally parent, had I known before her birth.
God has continually supplied the wisdom and grace where I am unprepared and without knowledge or strength. No test could do that for me I am sure.
Posted by: Laura | June 23, 2009 9:10 PM
Congratulations! Our third baby was diagnosed at around 11 to 12 weeks on ultrasound with a "thicker" than normal nuchal translucency measurement as well as tachycardia. I was 25 at the time and we were very shocked to hear the news that our baby might have down syndrome. At the time I cried my eyes out and in my heart did not want a special needs child but knew there was no way we would ever abort. My views have changed as I am older now and I realize how special and precious these children really are. Anyways- at around the end of my 4th month during that pregnancy I began spotting and went in to be checked and found out our baby had no heart beat. They did an ultrasound to verify that the baby had in fact died. We decided to have a d&e done and testing to see what the sex of the baby was and found out our baby had actually had trisomy 13 which in most cases babies rarely live after birth. So in a way we were relieved that the Lord did not allow us to go through a whole pregnancy and suffer through the death after birth. That would have been so much harder. It took me several years after that ordeal to even try for another pregnancy. After finding out we were pregnant again we opted to have the blood work done simply so we would be prepared for whatever the Lord would give us. I remember being so nervous waiting for the call and the results. God blessed us with our 3rd miracle in July of 2007. No chromosomal disorders this time. God bless you and whatever you decide it sounds like you have already made the right decision either way!
Posted by: Wendy | June 23, 2009 9:41 PM
Hi everyone, thank you for your input on this subject. Since emailing Barbara about this, I've thought about it some more and will not be getting the tests done this time around. I am secure that we would never abort any children we may have. I decided to not have the tests because if they did come back positive, there would have to be further testing to confirm the diagnosis such as an amniocentesis which carries a risk of miscarriage. I'm not willing to do that because of the risk. I would welcome more insight, thank you!
Posted by: Addie | June 23, 2009 9:46 PM
My brother-in-law had spina bifida, and was wheelchair-bound for his 32 years of life. We are at a higher risk for having a child with a neural tube defect. I have two children and was tested both times. I would prefer to know ahead of birth, if possible, to make sure that the baby got the best care both before and after birth. We would not abort, either way.
Posted by: Deborah | June 23, 2009 9:53 PM
I second Danielle M.
My grandmother and aunt who had downzers really wished for the advance notice, because of surgeries, issues, etc.
I test, even though I'm in my early 20's and low risk anyway, because it makes a difference which hospital I deliver in. Most of the hospitals within 50 miles of here have minimal resources for children needing attention because they get transported via ambulance to the BIG hospital.
Posted by: Emily C | June 23, 2009 9:53 PM
With all six of my pregnancies (the last resulted in our twins who were born a week ago), I opted out of all tests except for ultrasounds. My midwife was fine with it, but others were really pushing for more testing because I am 43. I have always felt that if a test shows something wrong that can be fixed in utero then it is worth it. But if it can't be repaired, for me it would be far better to meet the baby first and then deal with any health issues. One of my daughters required minor surgery at a week old. It was the longest week of my life, but I'm glad I didn't spend most of the pregnancy worrying about it. It is so easy for much of prenatal testing to steal a woman's joy over her pregnancy.
Posted by: Elizabeth | June 23, 2009 10:30 PM
I am currently pregnant with our third and opted out of the prenatal testing all three times. I already had/have enough anxiety with my pregnancies, that I knew I couldn't deal with a false-positive test.
Posted by: Marla | June 23, 2009 10:36 PM
I have opted out of all testing, except ultrasound, for each of our 6 children. Not like finding out will change anything. And I agree with the other mother who spoke of anxiety while pregnant...amen to that! I don't need anything else to worry me.
Posted by: Carolyn | June 24, 2009 12:16 AM
Out of ignorance we tested with our first two pregnancies, we refused testing with our last two. Like you, we figured it was a waste of money and resources. We knew we would not abort no matter what, and if there was anything truly serious, the ultrasound would most likely pick it up. Either way, we wanted to love our child with no reservations. Good luck to you and congratulations with your wonderful news!
Kristy in Germany
Posted by: Kristy in Germany | June 24, 2009 12:45 AM
Congratulations Addie!
Let me relate what happened with my third child.
I was 36 years old when I conceived my 3rd child. My first pre-natal visit was with a physician's assistant who let me know how "irresponsible" I was bringing a child into the world so late in life. Didn't I know there was an increased risk of Down Syndrome? What would my husband and I do to provide long-term care for this child who would outlive us? She immediately scheduled a battery of tests and sent me home.
Call me naive, but until then, I had given little thought to having a child with special needs. I just knew whatever happened, I would love my child and God would provide all we both needed.
At my next appointment, the doctor asked me why I was scheduled for these tests. I told him what had happened with the first appointment.
He listened for the baby's heartbeat, which was strong, and asked me if I had the referral forms for the tests. I handed them to him and he tore them to pieces and threw them away.
He said, "You are young and healthy. You have two children without any problems. Your baby has a strong heartbeat. The odds of anything going wrong at this point are tiny. In fact, you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning and winning the lottery on the same day. You take care of yourself through this pregnancy and let me worry about this baby."
So, I didn't have the tests. I wouldn't have aborted regardless. And I have to say I had the best OB/GYN doctor around. He was right, too. My Julia was born healthy and without any special needs. She would have found a special place in our family either way.
Posted by: Elizabeth M Thompson | June 24, 2009 1:21 AM
Congrats Addie! What a blessing, another gift from the Lord. I have 5 children and with all but the first, I have opted out of any testing except for ultrasounds. My main reason for that is that when they tested me with my oldest daughter, the AFP test came back as a very high probability of spina bifida (I think that is the right name for it!). Background on my story is that at the time of my first pregnancy, I was young, my husband and I were not yet married and we had not yet come to the Lord. Because of this being the situation, you can imagine the amount of people who suggested the best option to be abortion even way BEFORE the test that showed the possibility of defect. However, there was never a time when we considered it, thank the Lord. The test was indeed a FALSE positive and my daughter is a very healthy, happy, godly young woman of nearly 18 today. The stress that was caused by this test was troubling and I am very glad that we decided to opt out of them during our other 4 pregnancies. I don't know if that helps you at all, but that is my experience! And by the way, I love the comments you made in your last paragraph about the people that ask if this child "was planned"...my thought is always "Why, of course, we serve a Sovereign God who has each and everyone of our days in His plan...so YES, this precious child was planned!!". Too snarky? God Bless You!
Posted by: Jill | June 24, 2009 1:34 AM
I found out via Amniocentesis at 21 weeks that my son would be born with Down syndrome, and I am very happy that we opted for pre-natal testing. It gave my husband and I time to prepare ourselves emotionally, plus we had much better pre-natal care because of his diagnosis. My blood screening came back at 1/15 for Down syndrome and there were some markers on the ultrasound. I was only 24 years old at the time so it was quite the shock at first.
Yes, we were pressured to terminate the pregnancy, but we are Christians and pro-life and knew that we would continue no matter what, which we did. Our son is the greatest joy and such a huge blessing in our lives! I think that pre-natal testing is okay if used for the right reasons, but it really saddens me that people use it just for the sole purpose of terminating a child.
Posted by: Felecia | June 24, 2009 6:57 AM
I had the screening test when I was pregnant with my first child, conceived via IVF after years of infertility. The screening test came back positive for Down Syndrome and an amnio was recommended. I remember waiting all day at home alone in grief because I didn't want to tell my husband over the phone. I wasn't in grief over the possibility of DS, but because of the possibility of miscarriage. I actually thought I had to have the amnio! My husband's response was that there was absolutely no reason to have an amnio and if our son had DS then we would just love him all the more. That was all I needed to hear and I never once worried after that. The OB did continue to try and get me to have the test at every visit until it was 'too late.' We did tell our family the night before our son was induced, but Luke was born without DS.
I never had the testing done again (I switched OBs and was never even asked). Our third bio child was born with DS and it wasn't a traumatic event for me at all, other than her feeding issues the first week.
Because of Emma I have met lots and lots of parents of children with DS, and heard lots and lots of stories. One of our best friends (the only people we knew who had a child with DS before Emma was born) wishes they had had the amnio because their son with DS was born with a terrible heart problem and the drama at the hospital was intense. With each subsequent child they have had the amnio done although they are strong Christians and staunchly pro-life; they simply want to be as prepared as possible.
Others I have met have said the diagnosis ruined their pregnancy because all they have are possibilities of problems, but no 'for sure' answers as to which problems their baby would have. The possibilities seem overwhelming. As Barbara said, it may be much easier to face the problems when you are holding a new little baby in our arms.
To me, I think it all boils down to making the decision that takes you where you need to go, always remembering you are under the Lord's watchful, loving care. The only absolute is a commitment to life and to following the Lord wherever He takes you.
Best of wishes to you, Addie, and I hope you will share news of your birth with Barbara so we can rejoice with you!!!
Posted by: Jill S | June 24, 2009 7:51 AM
Thank you Barbara for putting up this posting!
I'm in Addie's position too- had my first visit with my OBGYN and heard the little one's heartbeat!!! Hubby was there and was thrilled too:). The too asked us if we wished to test for Down's, etc. Aside from having the anemia and gestational diabetes tests, I think we may skip the down's, spina bifida, etc testing as well. We're young (in our mid-late 20's) and have no history in our families of congenital defects, so we're pretty low risk- our doctor told us not to worry. All the previous comments really helped in deciding what to do!
Just wanted to share with the others about my OBGYN experiences. I used to go to a OBGYN affiliated with a Catholic hospital that, was mostly pro-life (did not perform abortions, reluctantly refrerred). However, when my husband and I decided to use NFP in place of contraception, my OBGYN laughed at me and said, "Good luck, you might as well start the prenatal vitamins now!" and wrote me script. Since I didn't enjoy being belittled or discouraged by my doctor, I looked for a new OBGYN. Luckily our area had a devoutly pro-life, NFP friendly doctor who does not perform or refer for abortions, and I've had nothing but supportive care ever since! I highly recommend searching out a doctor that is well versed in NFP as they are the most likely to not sneer at or belittle women for deciding to use NFP, have children late in life (like Elizabeth) or to encourage you to have an abortion if a test shows positive for a genetic condition.
I think that you can Google "NFP OBGYN" and there are several sites that contain directories of such physicians in your area. Mine's affiliated and on-campus with a birthing center and a major hospital too, so if anything happens during my pregnancy or delivery, help is just a short walk away:).
Posted by: Sarah | June 24, 2009 8:26 AM
Congratualtions Addie! I agree with Barbara that you are carrying a priceless gift. I am sorry that you have received negative comments from the "Church". I have received my share since I have 11 children; the most hurtful ones have been from Christians.
We opted out of all tests, except to check my iron levels, for six of my pregnancies. I used lay midwives to assist me in my births after having a few bad experiences at the hospital. It was tempting to have ultrasounds with my last two pregnancies (in my forties), but I really felt God was asking me to trust Him, and to walk by faith, not by sight. After all, Psalm 139 tells us we are created in a secret place. You and your husband should be the ones to make the decisions about anything concerning your children, however, seeking counsel from experienced people is very wise.
May God richly bless you and your family.
Posted by: Diane | June 24, 2009 8:28 AM
If I had a suspicion that the baby might have DS then I'd do the testing just to make sure so myself and my husband could be ready emotionally, mentally and prepare our families. I know for a fact I would be pressured from everyone (except my husband and children) to abort because they'd find it an embarrassment to have a child with DS in the family. And yes, I'd cease communication with them if that ever happened.
I'm currently pregnant with #5 and I typically avoid all the testing except ultrasounds. I'm very pro-life and wouldn't abort a child just because God made that child in a manner society deems unworthy.
I'm also post-abortive due to a forced abortion in my earlier years because my family couldn't handle the stigma of an unwed daughter. It left me destroyed and that's why I'd cease communications with my family if they even thought to try to "convince" me to abort a child with DS.
I've also watched a woman that was destroyed by abortion because a test came back saying her child had DS. Her boyfriend refused to acknowledge the child and forced her to do a third trimester abortion. When the doc was checking the baby after the abortion, there was no Down's. The baby was perfectly healthy. This woman was DESTROYED. (Thank God for Rachel vineyard retreats)
Anyway... I feel so horrible for the women that endure the doctors, nurses, family and society that try to tell them to abort a child that isn't perfect in their eyes. What a horrible weight to have to carry around when we should be so excited about bringing forth God's creation.
Posted by: Dirtdartwife | June 24, 2009 9:59 AM
Dear Addie, CONGRATULATIONS!!! A Baby is ALWAYS a blessing, and I am thrilled for your family.
First, I echo was was stated about having the support of a supportive, pro-life OB. It makes the world of a difference along the whole journey of pregnancy and post-partum. Knowing you share the same pro-life values with your doc takes some of the weight off all the prenatal tests, including the ultrasound itself, since you know you will not face negative pressure. If for one moment you doubt that you have that support I would refuse the testing simply to avoid the conflict.
Secondly is a story about a dear friend who opted to have a home birth with a midwife for her first child. Although she received wonderful prenatal care she opted out of ALL diagnostic screening, including the ultrasounds, and went on to have a wonderful pregnancy unburdened by the pressure to have invasive tests. She gave birth to a little girl at home... who has Down Syndrome. Both Mama and Baby were/are FINE. She was unprepared both psychologically and medically for the needs of this little one, and instead rejoiced in the arrival of her perfect little gift. They called a pediatrician right afterwards and Gracie was fine. The point is they didn't know ahead of time and instead were able to immediately bond and fall in love, which is really what having a BAby should be, right? They followed the same path with her second and he's perfectly healthy. They didn't feel they needed to know anything ahead of time since it really didn't matter.
I always opt out of invasive prenatal testing both because of the risks associated (small though they be) and because I don't believe it would help me "prepare." Rather I believe that because of my personality they would simply feed fear and uncertainty. Instead I pray and trust in God, knowing He's the one taking care of the both of us anyway. I love the 20week US for a chance to see our growing babies, and knowing that anything MAJOR would be discovered there.
I will offer up my prayers today for you, your Baby, and your family! Good luck!
Posted by: Kate | June 24, 2009 11:01 AM
I did want to clarify - I opt out of the genetic screening, but NOT all of the prenatal tests.
My little sister died from group B strep - I always have that test, as well as the gestational diabetes test. The HIV/STD tests are required by law where I live, and they do another blood test to test for rubella and toxoplasmosis antibodies. (Seeing if I'm still immune).
Although, since I've had GD 7 out of 8 times, they don't even test me but assume I have it and I check my blood sugar throughout my pregnancy starting at 10 weeks.
I completely understand that women would want to know ahead of time, to mentally and physically prepare - but *I* know *myself* and I'd just worry to death!
Posted by: Milehimama | June 24, 2009 11:04 AM
I have given birth to 7 children - never had any "genetic" prenatal testing. (ie: AFP test or amnio)
My advice either way - tests or not: "Don't worry about tomorrow - each day has enough trouble of it's own". (my paraphrase from scripture) Take one day at a time. God will give you the grace & strength to handle what you need when you need it. When people say they "need" to be prepared - I often wonder what they would do if their born child was struck with a disease or injury that instantly left them incapacitated physically or mentally. No time to prepare with that and yet I know that they would all "step up to the plate" and deal with it head on. Their love for that child would overcome any ineptness or unpreparadeness that they felt they had. Hmmmm...just wondering why we always think we need to be prepared or in control of everything. Something to think about for sure.
One other comment - someone posted above that a woman's boyfriend forced her to get an abortion. No one can force us to undergo a major medical procedure like an abortion without our consent. To say that we were forced to get an abortion as an adult is not taking responsibility for our own actions.
Posted by: Beth Lambdin | June 24, 2009 12:19 PM
I don't go for the screenings because I figure that the purpose behind them is to weed out people with disabilities. Even though I would not have an abortion, I feel that if I had the tests I would be condining the abortive mentality. I realise that there are some life threatening issues which if detected before birth the baby can be saved but these would be picked up from scans anyway. Just my opinion though I don't think it is wrong for a person to choose to have the tests.
Posted by: Susan | June 24, 2009 2:02 PM
Just a quick response to Beth's comment above about "forced" abortions. While no one is ever strictly held down to the table against their will (unless they live in China...), there are many factors that can make a woman feel that she "has no other choice" than that of raising a child completely by herself without help or the resources needed to feed and nurture a growing person or having an abortion and maintaining her social status. I'm afraid that too many women go the abortion route because they are so hemmed in by people in their life feeding them lies about their choices. Too little is done to inform women now-a-days about the many crisis pregnancy and adoption centers that are available to mothers in need.
Perhaps in the cases where we know of someone feeling "forced" or otherwise coerced into having an abortion on an unplanned, but still wanted child, we should do the Christian thing and steer them away from Planned Parenthood and towards the crisis pregnancy center.
I agree with your desire for those who aborted to take responsibility for their choices, but please understand that many women who go to these centers had very little will power of their own to begin with (hence the illicit sex that lead to their situation) and are usually surrounded by people whose main concern is with "social acceptability" or their own selfish convenience. This does not excuse their behavior, but I hope it sheds some light on what is going on in their situation and in their own minds.
I speak from experience having been raised in a post-abortive household (2 siblings I never met and a niece/nephew I hope to see in heaven, not to mention a cousin or two...) who enshrined a "woman's right to choose". My mother's own two abortions were actually recommended by my grandmother (herself a bastard child and understanding all too well the stigma that went with it).
So please, without our efforts to reflect some of the Divine Mercy given to us, we're not going to be making the culture of death change, nor are we going to convert hearts. Conversion begins with knowing what you did and then understanding His forgiveness. What I wouldn't do for Christ for what He's forgiven me...
Posted by: Sarah | June 24, 2009 3:11 PM
Beth... while I respect your right to have an opinion, you are very wrong on your assessment of not being forced to have an abortion. 64% of women having an abortion are forced- or a more politically correct term- coerced. (go to www.theunchoice.org) I've taken responsibility for MY actions in the abortion, but others were highly involved as well (threats). And there is NOTHING you will ever say to convince me that I wasn't forced. I feel sorry for you in your lack of understanding and empathy of the pain and hell post abortive women endure. Unless you yourself are one of those women that had an abortion and don't care. That's the only reason I could come up with as to why you're being so callous.
Sorry for going off track...but that seriously needed to be addressed and corrected.
Posted by: Dirtdartwife | June 24, 2009 3:21 PM
Congratulations!
My answer on testing is no. Modern medicine is far from infallible and I'd rather err on the side where my heart is telling me I will love this baby (#7 for me) no matter what than have to skirt "bioethical" issues.
As for nosy friends asking whether baby was planned. It's not really any of anyone else's business but, in Christian circles, there might be need for a reminder that baby was planned even if not by mom and dad - God does not make mistakes. ;^)
Best wishes for a happy & healthy 9!
Posted by: Michelle | June 24, 2009 3:31 PM
I am sorry to have caused such emotion or any hurt in my comments about taking responsibility for ones actions when it comes to abortion.
Part of being a sinner (no matter what the sin is - lying, hatred, murder, abortion, gossip, adultery, gluttony etc....etc....) is taking responsibility for your part in the sin.
I am sure there are instances when someone is forced to sin but mostly I think that we choose sin over the other options available.
The good news is that when we realize the gravity of our sin then our gratefulness for God's forgiveness and mercy overflows from our life. Those who have been forgiven much...love much.
No, by God's grace, I have not had an abortion but nor am I cold, callous or uncaring to those who have. On the contrary I have walked through many deep valleys with post abortive women and have been there to pray for them, counsel with them & love them through the pain.
I am currently working on trying to get our local crisis pregnancy center to offer adoption services as well as make themselves more visable in our community so that hopefully women who do feel forced can find a place that will give them hope & help.
I don't know if that helps to clarify my opinion or lesson the pain I may have caused, but I thought I would try. (And Barbara feel free to just send this message directly to the one commenter if you don't want to post it online. I in no way want to hurt any women who have walked this painful path and it looks like my comment did that)
Posted by: Beth Lambdin | June 24, 2009 5:33 PM
Hi - My last two children were born when I was 39 and 41, and I did have AFP testing with both of them. When the results came back, both showed increased risk of Down's, however my midwives in both cases explained to us that the mother's age is required to be submitted with the test request and that all mothers over age 35 are flagged as increased risk based on maternal age alone, regardless of the actual AFP number. I don't know if results are still reported this way as my two perfectly healthy daughters are now 7 and 9, but certainly the AFP gave us no information we didn't already have. We did have a tertiary ultrasound with the youngest, but even then, the perinatalogist made it very clear to us that while she saw no abnormalities in the baby, even tertiary ultrasounds fail to detect problems that do exist 50% of the time - and routine ultrasound exams are not tertiary. So we still didn't really learn anything and afterwards I wondered what the point was. I refused any amnios due to the small but real risk of miscarrying, and I would certainly never have aborted my baby, but at the time I might have made different birth plans if we had known there was a possible problem that would require medical intervention at birth. However, the tests we did have didn't provide us with any real assurances. On the other hand, one of my midwives did - she questioned me in great detail regarding the activity of the baby as compared to my other pregnancies. She said she had never known of a Down's baby whose mother had not commented on the unborn baby's lack of movement (in experienced mothers at least as in my case). I don't know if that is always true but she said it held up very well in her practice. She was a CNM with many years of experience in a group practice with I think 7 or 9 midwives at the time. I hope this helps - certainly the tests don't!
Posted by: Tami | June 24, 2009 5:52 PM
Me: "If I have these tests, will they give me any information that won't show up on the ultrasound [when I have it in three weeks]?"
OB: "Nope."
Me: "And the tests won't give us any extra time to treat or prepare for anything that might be wrong?"
OB: "No, they won't. Any findings would need to be confirmed by ultrasound anyway."
Me: "So these tests aren't good for much?"
OB: "Well... some people use them to make the decision whether or not to... continue a pregnancy."
Me: "But since any useful information would have to be confirmed by the ultrasound anyway..."
OB: "Yes."
Me: "Well, then I don't want 'em."
OB: [writing on chart] "When I was pregnant I made the same decision."
Posted by: Peony Moss | June 24, 2009 7:38 PM
Congratulations!
Other comment-leavers have covered just about everything I wanted to say so I'll post a link instead. This is from Tepeyac Family Center, a fantastic pro-life OB/Gyn practice in Northern Virginia. The link is a good guide to what prenatal tests are available, what they look for and what risks there are.
http://www.tepeyacfamilycenter.com/obstetrics/pregnancy_topics/genetic_screening/
For my four full-term pregnancies, I opted out of testing, unless there was something genuinely therapeutic that could be done for the baby in the case of abnormalities or illness (ie, increased folic acid consumption, blood transfusions for anemia, etc.).
Posted by: Molly | June 24, 2009 7:43 PM
It seems as though a lot of people only think of testing for DS when it comes to prenatal testing. I'll start my story with saying I am a practicing Christian and I would accept a DS baby as a gift.
Prenatal testing tells much more however, and there is a lot more out there than DS. With no risk factors I found out that the baby I was carrying had a major, and fatal brain malformation (alobar holoprosencephaly. My research showed me how much pain my baby would suffer until he died (they often sever the spinal nerves of these babies to alleviate the pain). He had no chance of voluntary thought or movement. I had a 4 year old son at the time.
My choice was not whether he would die, it was how. I chose to spare him that pain and deliver him early. God was with me and is with me still. I believe that God sent me this child because he knew I would do the right thing for him. Maybe I was wrong, but I don't think so. And it is not for people to judge, only God, and we've talked it over a lot. I think we're good.
So...I just wanted to open your eyes a little that a)prenatal testing is not all about downs, and b) it sure is easy to say you'd never have an abortion if you've never walked in those shoes. I used to say it too. I chose to take the pain so my baby didn't have to suffer, and I'd bet a lot of you loving moms would do the same thing.
Posted by: Amy | June 25, 2009 10:35 AM
Beth, if you've walked the deep valleys with post abortive women, then you can understand my harsh reaction to being blatantly told we deserve the hell we've gone through with our "choice" because no one "made" us choose to have an abortion. I wish no one made me choose to have an abortion because then maybe I could deal with it better and not harbor so much ill feelings towards others (I'm prayerfully still working towards that but it's very hard). I find it easier to hate myself then to hate others but I know I'm not 100% responsible for the abortion and the worst part is that it was family that made me do it.
I commend you for your activities in what you do with crisis pregnancy centers, etc and I encourage you to get involved with Project Rachel or Rachel Vineyards retreats if you know post-abortive women that are trying to heal. They're both great programs and have helped me to turn my life around.
And all this stemmed from me saying the reason I'd want the prenatal testing done if they found a suspicion so I'd be able to mentally prepare myself. Because for me, unlike many of the other posters, I wouldn't be battling the outcome of DS, or some other genetic or fetal issue as being "prepared" but I'd have to battle my family and other close friends because they'd try to convince me to abort. I would never do it (abortion) again but having to listen to that type of pressure is VERY VERY hard.
Thanks for letting me write this out and Beth, thanks for understanding my position. I do appreciate it.
Posted by: Dirtdartwife | June 25, 2009 10:47 AM
Amy- I'm terribly sorry for your loss and the pain you must have endured. However this loving mother wouldn't "deliver early" which is a euphemism for induced late term abortion, wouldn't take the life of a child regardless of how much pain he or she would endure. It's not my place to judge for that child, and you said we're not allowed to judge, correct?
Can we get back to prenatal testing? Congrats Addie!
Posted by: anon | June 25, 2009 1:55 PM
I had the tests because, if they were to come back positive, I would want the time to learn as much as possible and come to terms with my baby's disability in the months before his birth.
And responding to the original post -- it is appalling the kind of remarks people make when a mom is "too old" to be pregnant or otherwise doesn't fit the "ideal." My two youngest children were born 10 months apart and if I had a dollar for every time somebody asked me if I knew where babies came from....
Posted by: Jadzia | June 25, 2009 3:12 PM
Hi! I never had the tests done for the reason you mentioned, and my doctor agreed with me. However, I agree that if you are strong enough not to let the test convince you something is wrong (since there are often false positives), I see one reason worth taking it. If it showed a high probability of something, yet the baby appeared fine at birth, you might request a blood test to check for genetic/chromosomal issues that might not be obvious at birth. That way, if they exist, you know to start learning now how to help them. :) If the test will cause you months of stress, I would forgo it.
Posted by: Angela | June 25, 2009 3:37 PM
I am in the 'advanced maternal age' group .... and every time I get pregnant, and my OB starts asking questions about quad screenings, AFP, amniocentisis, etc, I just wave her aside. I've told her I'm not interested in the test, and she respects my beliefs. I will have an anemia check, as well as Group B strep, and gestational diabetes screening. With my last pregnancy (twins), I had a level 2 ultrasound, as well as numerous, numerous ultrasounds for growth scans, BPPs, etc. Phew!
In the event that I become pregnant again, I may ask for an early ultrasound, just to ease my mind about how many children I would be carrying. Other than that, I'm not signing up for much more!
Posted by: Dianna | June 29, 2009 4:07 PM
